BipolarGrowth

The forum seemed to die a bit when the psychedelic sub-forum was separated from this one. Making another separate sub-forum would probably do the same.

Great comment here.

I agree that the best spiritual practices someone should do is going to be quite individualized. No two awakenings are likely to be the same. Awakening is going to be the culmination of a multitude of different factors for each individual. If we look at Awakening as building a house, Frank Yang will say that saws are useful, but they won’t take you all the way. He’ll say that hammers are the tool of choice. Leo will say that saws are the preferred tool, and that hammers are often more trouble than they are worth. Fuck that. I’m building my house with saws, hammers, and anything else that is useful.

Do you think the same might apply to your view of Vipassana or Buddhism? If you can’t go into cessation practically on command, you’re behind even some of the Western experts who are probably still missing 80%+ of Buddhism. It seems like you have less experience in Buddhism than many in that system, and those operating within that framework have far less experience with psychedelics. To me, it’s seeming like the bias is going both ways.

Nothing but Leo’s non-existent (due to Solipsism) direct experience is Awake from what I’ve gathered from his posts. It appears that “Awake” has become an entirely different word when he uses it.

+1 but this will likely not happen for quite some time if at all

I hadn’t heard of this term until I saw this thread. I looked it up, and all of the main sources gave an almost identical description to kasina meditation which looks like essentially the Buddhist equivalent. Here’s a free and high-quality book on fire kasina in PDF format: https://firekasina.org/fire-kasina-book/ Fire kasina is the form of kasina that uses a light source such as a candle flame. I know @Michal__ has done water kasina and probably some other types. He might have some suggestions. With fire kasina, you actually end up working with more of a mental image rather than a purely visual image once you are able to hold the image for some time with the eyes closed. Doing this might help build the ability to create more stable visualizations for other mental images you feel inclined to use.

“Everyone you read and follow is a idiot.” - Leo Gura Only geniuses make language usage errors in the same sentence they insult another person’s intelligence.

Awesome. Now tell us something we don’t already know ?

Maybe you can find something to work on that you value and is also beneficial in a general sense for now. You don’t have to find your absolute fool proof life purpose before acting.

There’s no way to predict with certainty if that would help or hurt your situation. There are countless times where people have induced psychosis from psychedelic use, but psychedelics can also be quite healing, especially on psychological issues. I guess if nothing else is working it might be worth trying if you’re up for the risk. Just be prepared for it to potentially go in the opposite direction of what you’re looking for.

This is completely normal in my opinion. Meditation is, in almost any form, going to consist of you taking a closer and likely more honest look at your experience which happens to include sensations/qualia we often call a “self”. Self-image is a bit more constructed/contrived/fabricated than the sense of self or what we commonly call ego. Self-image is never going to be an entirely consistent thing. The issue with finding a type of meditation that allows a more stable self-image is that as you look closely enough at your experience, your self-image and potentially even sense of self will begin to unravel. You will see beyond previous notions and possibly even eliminate or severely reduce certain patterns of sensations which comprise your typical sense of self. If you want a type of meditation that will allow for progress that allows for a good bit of groundedness, I would suggest trying some walking meditation. I think this will allow you to stay more connected to your body and the way your self-image is currently being created. There are plenty of other types of meditation which might serve you well toward this goal, but I would stray away from the more advanced types for now until you find yourself feeling more adventurous again.

This is motivating me to do a solo retreat. I’ve been looking for an affordable meditation retreat that doesn’t have restrictions based on mental health diagnoses, and there’s not been much luck on that front. Maybe it’s time for me to learn from some trees instead of a wrinkly person in robes.

This seems like a criticism of Leo’s personality mainly. The OP makes some decent points, but I think Leo has a burden on his shoulders trying to maintain the forum as well as his teachings at a high standard. Responsibility which is heavily influenced by the behavior of others can be quite taxing in many ways. I think Leo is overall a great teacher with some human faults, and I wonder why anyone would try to reasonably expect more than that.

I mean that’s kind of what Buddhism is all about, at least certain interpretations of Theravada Buddhism. Look up Parinibbana. It’s essentially being completely free from existence and never coming back. “Parinibbāna (nt.) [pari+nibbāna] "complete Nibbāna" in two meanings: 1. complete extinction of khandhalife; i. e. all possibility of such life & its rebirth, final release from (the misery of) rebirth and transmigration, death (after the last life -- span of an Arahant). This is the so -- called "an -- upādi -- sesa Parinibbāna," or "extinction with no rebirth -- substratum left." Buddhism is basically saying that suffering is inherent to life, but there is a way to be eternally dead. It is meant to be the path to that.

There’s a decent chance it can trigger a manic episode. Sometimes the trade off can be worth it, but that depends on the individual’s goals and life circumstances.

It’s a bit odd that you ask which meditation is better but then say only mindfulness meditation. Also, a lot of what determines success with meditation has to do with what you personally respond well to. It’s not going to be the same for everyone. Mindfulness meditation how it’s practiced by many people is potentially one of the less effective variants. There’s also much variety to be found in “mindfulness meditation”. Some watered down and westernized forms are not anything compared to mindfulness meditation done within a different context of teachings or tradition.

I would just be very mindful of how you are coming off to people around you. Asking if you are insane is a question which requires a certain level of sanity and self-reflection. When someone is in a truly insane state, this question will often not arise because nothing seems wrong. If the people around you are not interpreting you as being insane or crazy, as long as you can handle the internal stuff without wanting to harm yourself or anyone else, there isn’t too much to worry about. This feeling will likely pass given enough time.

@Eternal Unity From what I’ve gathered he was aware of Hinduism. He didn’t seem to think the common methods around at his time were sufficient for people to awaken. He ended up going on his own path finding the middle way between the extreme ascetic practices and the ways of the world after experiencing the comforts of the world as a prince and trying out the extreme ascetic practices for several years himself. I don’t think he thought Hinduism was bull shit but rather that it came to incorrect conclusions and was incomplete. The clearest example of this is the word anattā (non-substantiality of the self). The word anattā comes from the Sanskrit word Atman, but anattā is the negation of that term (anatman). This shows us that the Buddha promoted the idea that even the Atman (big Self) in Hinduism was not permanent and not entirely liberating as a realization.

I was being sarcastic that the person who essentially was the origin of the term as we know it wouldn’t know about it. There is no person, body, senses, thinking, perception, consciousness, mind, or anything else when this occurs. To say that you are dead when this happens is sort of true because a “you” is an experiential thing. This is one of the reasons why the Buddha compared this to Nirvana and described it as a form of Nirvana because there cannot possibly be suffering without experience. There are parallels to be drawn in Hinduism as well such as what is described in this video. This possibility of a “state” or attainment outside of experience has been known to Hinduism and Buddhism for quite a long time. It really is one of the clearest ways, if not the clearest way, to see past the illusions created by clinging to identity. This is why it is valued so highly in these traditions.

Actually one of the definitions for Nirvana is the literal ceasing of all experience according to the Buddha, but he probably didn’t know what he was talking about.

I didn’t think it was. I just had to extend the commentary on the misuse of deluded into a joke about diluting something, and salty having more than one meaning served this purpose quite well. This is one case where the Absolute and relative perspectives are entirely identical. There’s only One who thinks what I’m saying is funny. I think I’ll stop for now.

I can actually understand Leo’s frustration here a bit when the thread consists of ridiculous conflation of relative vs. absolute perspectives which have been explained here likely thousands of times. What topped it all off for me was seeing someone say “diluting” yourself ? I mean I can get that Leo sounds salty here though, so maybe I’m missing something lol The interesting thing about all this is that mouse posting is okay, but rat posting is not.

If you get even halfway to insanity, society will let you know. There won’t be a need to ask the question. Mental health problems, difficulties, or even full-on disorders aren’t really the same as insanity.

I’ve just started listening to this, and I think it might be appreciated by some of you here.