BipolarGrowth

Not the same.

If you wanna go deep into Buddhism, here’s a hidden gem.

I have been unstable, suicidal, depressed, and manic many times, but spirituality is what helped me have better “mastery” over my psyche than anything else ever has. Nothing else comes close for me tbh.

Then just develop yourself where your interests lie when you have the time rather than forcing “normal” activities which are unfulfilling. Eventually, you’ll probably exhaust the interest in spirituality to a degree and normal stuff might be more appealing again. At least that’s what happened for me.

No way to tell, but there is a question to ask. Did you know anything about enlightenment in your first memories?

Go find an interest. It’s really that simple, but it can feel hard in that state. If you look hard and long enough, you will find something that makes you feel alive. That’s pretty much guaranteed unless you die unexpectedly. Go try some new things. Or go do something you used to like/love.

Basic needs being met will make happiness easier in theory. You can be happy in plenty of bad circumstances, but that ability might be harder to develop if survival needs take too much of your time.

@mivafofa just to be clear, I was suggesting that you likely do not have bipolar disorder. If you think ADHD is covering the full picture, there’s a good chance that’s more accurate than bipolar disorder.

@Muhammad Jawad you take a shit in the middle of the carpet. Rather than saying, God took a shit in the middle of the carpet, therefore I don’t have to respond to this at all, you say, oh fuck, the relative appearance of I took a shit in the middle of the carpet. Perhaps the relative appearance of an I might be best served and best serve the relative appearance of others by cleaning up the shit. This is not rocket science. If you think it’s the Absolute doing everything which in turn makes responsibility obsolete, do an experiment of taking little to no responsibility in a relative sense and see if you’re more satisfied by taking little to no responsibility. Edit: Also, there’s no separation or difference between the “illusory you” and “God/Life” if we want to be technical. There’s not even a singular thing. There’s not even a lack of a singular thing. There are no labels that truly work for the “Absolute”. There are no classifications for it, even the classification that there are no classifications for it.

Funnily enough in the context of this thread, I actually have ADHD and bipolar disorder both clinically diagnosed in rather foolproof ways. You used to see yourself as having a gift. That’s how it actually was for you. Now, you discover that that same gift lines up with something people typically call a disorder. Now, you start to feel worse about yourself. The gift is still there just as much as ever. Now you just realize that is a double edged sword in a sense. ADHD can be beneficial in certain ways for sure, and it can also be detrimental in certain ways. All this really means is your brain is a bit different than most people’s. Now that you have a bit more context, you can do things to try to keep the advantages and work on the disadvantages. The result could be a much “better” you. This is actually a lucky opportunity in a sense. You have the potential to understand aspects of yourself in a new way. If 95% of the population had ADHD, a normal brain to us now would quite likely be called a disorder. When I was first taking a computer test facilitated by my therapist to test for ADHD after scoring as having ADHD on a questionnaire he gave me, I tested far worse than most people in regards to attention/reaction time. After trying the test on ADHD medication, I scored far better than neurotypical people. The scores were something like -3.5 and 7.2. A score of zero is average or normal. The first time I showed a significant deficiency, the second time I showed an advantage over twice further off the norm in the positive direction. People with ADHD have a bias toward more stimulation whereas people without ADHD often do better with less. It’s not really a disorder in a sense. It’s just that our world is built for neurotypical people. I’d imagine you likely have the ability to hyper-focus on things you are interested in compared to people who are neurotypical if you do in fact have ADHD. One of the best things that’s worked for me is to structure my life in a way that I get to use this hyper-focus as an advantage. It’s as simple as structuring your life around stuff you actually care about and enjoy doing which is generally beneficial whether someone is neurotypical or not. There is certainly an overlap in certain symptoms in regard to bipolar disorder and ADHD. The chance that you have bipolar disorder type 1 is likely quite low. You would’ve been hospitalized for it by 30+ years old in almost all cases. There’s a chance you could have bipolar disorder type 2 (which is characterized by less severe/intense manic episodes), but I wouldn’t worry much about this unless you notice a number of large state changes in yourself. Bipolar disorder is not really much about moods. It’s about states. A state change is far more significant than a mood shift. There are plenty of people who experience tumultuous mood shifts that are rather neurotypical, at least at the genetic level. There are hardly no people who experience manic or hypomanic state changes naturally who do not have a “disorder”. If you and others around you do not notice significant changes in your expression moving from hypomanic/manic to depressive, the chance that you have bipolar disorder is quite low. I’d recommend getting tested for ADHD as soon as is reasonable, and if you still feel there’s something more not explaining the full picture, you can try getting evaluated for other factors. I recommend doing the test sooner rather than later as it will open the door to the use of medication if necessary which has positively transformed many people’s lives. Also, keep in mind that if you do go to consider medication there are ADHD medications that are not stimulants which work well for some. Hope this helps.

This seems to be a good way of creating unnecessary worry and anxiety. I would not recommend it. I think focusing on what’s good in the moment is a better approach as far as mental health goes. It’s helped me quite a bit. Dhammarato has a lot of videos on YouTube about wholesome thinking resulting in the lack of suffering. Supposedly, this is a large part of the basics that the Buddha taught to get out of suffering, at least according to someone who was a monk for 2-3 decades and is probably the happiest old man I’ve ever met.

I think this could be helpful. At the very least, if people want to use a common word in a different way than it is generally understood, they can clarify that they are using the word with a different meaning. I’ve had a number of conversations here where it feels like we’re lightly arguing/debating when at the end of the exchange it is discovered we were essentially talking about a very similar point although our definitions were different which caused us to appear to be in disagreement.

Taking personal responsibility will likely improve your life whether it’s your fault or not.

Came here to say essentially the same thing. They cannot be separated.

This work has at times lost me friendships and romantic relationships. It also has given me many higher quality friendships than I ever had before. I find pursuing a romantic relationship to be not worth the trouble unless the person was a truly good fit or things happened rather naturally now. I think this might actually be quite good for me personally as I used to be a romantic love addict to a degree. I think the main thing to keep in mind is that you’re differentiating yourself with this work. This naturally can lead to some isolation from people with certain perspectives simply because there might not be enough overlapping interests to create a good foundation for a friendship or romantic relationship. I would say that this process has brought me to the depth of friendships and relationships I wanted though at times. I have many friends, pretty much exclusively online, who I can discuss this work with, and this has been one of the best things to ever happen to me. If you want to create good friendships and relationships, it can be beneficial to try to make those connections in places where people share similar interests. Best of luck.

This is essentially my perspective which I was waiting to post until I was done seeing what else has been said. I think that Nahm’s teaching has a good value for certain people at a certain point in their practice, but I think he was far too detached from the needs of who he was commonly communicating with. The demonization of thought or “that’s just a thought” is just a thought, lol. The whole teaching style ultimately deconstructs its own usefulness, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It can take people to a good place. Regardless, thought is not separate from Being. Anyone with the impression that there is a separation has created an unnecessary gap which fragments experience in counterproductive ways when done to extremes. Thought is one of the best tools for the spiritual path when used in effective ways. Of course, most people come to spirituality with thought causing them countless issues, but the entire teaching should not be to be anti-thought forever. This will not bring people the best experience/life they are capable of, but it is a necessary step to create some gaps between thought at times for this work. I appreciate Nahm and have mostly appreciated his presence here, but it has come to be problematic. I also would guess that we’re not going to see a change in communication and are more likely to see him gone for at least a while. I say this in part because I noticed a trend where he started moderately trolling Leo and his teachings lately. What Nahm pointed out about Leo’s teachings was in many ways accurate from a certain perspective, but as a mod especially, I think he was taking it too far and setting a bad example at least in the past week or two. I find his stuff to not be that hard to understand for the most part, but I see it as too simplistic and attached to a singular perspective oftentimes which was one of the faults I saw with it. If it were a normal member and not the most active mod on the forum, I don’t think this would be much of an issue.

I think it’s probably foolish to assume Leo’s course would not prioritize psychedelics to likely a high degree.

You are already omniscient and omnipotent, and this has nothing to do with one aspect of experience being able to teleport into Winnie the Pooh’s porn collection at will. You are omniscient and omnipotent because you are everything. Creating everything. Everything is done through you with no action taken at all. You just happen to believe you are only a part of what you actually are. Even the idea that you are creating everything is a rudimentary expression of what is actually the case. It’s simply a stepping stone to a deeper truth. Everything that can be known is known right now as there is only right now as it appears. Appearances of a lack of knowledge are just one of the things you perceive which is illusory in the way it impacts your beliefs of what is. You think there is a moment in the future in which more can be known when in truth there is no such moment. You think there is a moment in the past in which less was known when in truth there is no such moment. The same goes for power, except there is the addition that you think that your power means the power of the human appearance to enact its will upon reality which is confused as the human appearance is only a tiny sliver of what you are.

Is it possible to see as it’s not?

You can most certainly achieve no body sensation. Otherwise we would not have so many people talking about formless jhana. I was having minor surgery on my toe in the middle of an extremely painful allergic reaction to a numbing agent when all bodily sensations first disappeared for me. No body sensations alone is not the same as cessation though, but there are no bodily sensations or perception in cessation.

Read MCTB (completely free online): https://www.mctb.org/ Specific information about the jhanas can be found by going to the table of contents. Watch Dhammarato’s YouTube channel. This is an episode where he describes the foundations of the first jhana to me. Bhikkhu Candana’s YouTube channel is a great resource for Buddhist meditation. Here’s his video on the Ānāpānasati Sutta which is possibly the most important for understanding how to meditate using Buddhist techniques:

Put simply, there is no experience at all. If people are describing something as being experiential, it’s not cessation. Fruition and nirodha samapatti are the two types of cessation typically discussed. They are only different in how one reaches the “state” of cessation. Fruition is usually spontaneous, and nirodha samapatti is when cessation is accessed through progressing through the first formed jhanas and four formless jhanas in order which can result in cessation. Nirodha samapatti is typically only seen as being done by people who have experienced at a minimum of three cessations but, in most cases, many more than that. From Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha by Daniel Ingram: “Fruition (phala in Pali) is the fruit of all the meditator’s hard work, the first attainment of ultimate reality, emptiness, nirvana, nibbana, ultimate potential, or whatever extrapolative and relatively inaccurate name you wish to call something utterly non-sensate. In this non-state, there is absolutely no time, no space, no reference point, no experience, no mind, no consciousness, no awareness, no background, no foreground, no nothingness, no somethingness, no body, no this, no that, no unity, no duality, and no anything else. “Reality” stops cold and then reappears. Thus, this is impossible to comprehend, as it goes completely and utterly beyond the rational mind and the universe. In “external time” (if we were observing the meditator) this stage typically lasts only an instant (though the question of “duration” will be addressed below). It is like an utter discontinuity of the space-time continuum with nothing in the unfindable gap, exactly like what happens when someone edits out a frame or sequence of frames of a movie. It is not that you see a blank screen for a while where they edited the frames out, instead that part of the movie is just not there. The initial aftershocks following the first time this happens at stream entry (or the first time it happens at the beginning of a higher level of awakening), however, can go on for days, and may be mild or spectacular, fun or unsettling, or some mixture of these. There are times when it is fun to show off, and this is one of those times. (Particularly mature? No. Honest? Yes.) Aftershocks I have noticed after paths include but are not limited to: • the brief visceral feeling that sensory reality is so intense that the nerves in the forehead and upper neck may not be able to handle the strain; • the feeling that new brain pathways are now being infused with vibrant life they lacked before, as if new nerve channels are tingling into life; • the feeling that we have become diffused into the atmosphere without a center, purpose, function, sense of direction, or even will; • a feeling of joy and gratitude bursting through our being beyond our usual sense of appreciation; • the sense of having at long last discovered what we most needed; • the profound sense of coming home, a quiet awe like the stillness after a great storm; • rapturous transcendent highs that make anything that happened after the A&P seem like dry toast; • the profound feeling that something pressed a reset button on reality, causing it to reboot as new, clean, clear, bright, pristine, and fresh. All that said, there are those who won’t recognize it, particularly those who chance upon it outside of a meditative tradition that can recognize it. There will also be those for whom it happens within the context of their practice tradition, who can recognize it, but who fail to identify it as being what it is. Sometimes the afterglow is not so spectacular, though for most the series of insights, connections, syntheses, and the like that burgeon forth is impressive. Others will just go on practicing, not realizing what has just happened. Just after the attainment of a path, particularly the first path, is a time when formal resolutions have an outrageous amount of power. The Buddha said that the greatest of all powers is to understand and then teach the dharma, meaning to attain full realization, however you define it, and then to help others do the same. I had been advised to use this unique period in my practice well, and I resolved to attain this awakening for the benefit of all beings as quickly as was reasonably possible. Despite all the complex consequences of having done so, I do not regret my decision in the least and highly recommend that you do the same. On subsequent passes through Fruition of that path, the mind tends to be refreshed, bright, quiet, and clear for a while, and milder forms of the above-listed phenomena may occur. The afterglow can seem to clear out all the junk for a little while. There is a nice bliss wave that tends to follow and may take a few seconds to develop. You can take that bliss wave as a shamatha object if you wish and intensify it, as a possible option. If you have not learned the concentration states yet, doing so in the afterglow of a Fruition can make them much easier to attain and master. The breath may change on the reappearance of “reality”, being a bit deeper, slower, easier, and more fluid. The total synchrony of the sense sphere that leads to a Fruition shows a fun physiological fact: Fruitions always occur at the end of the out-breath, and reality always reappears at the beginning of the in-breath, which is one of the cool reasons that finding the end of the out-breath can be powerful practice. For those who really want to get to know something interesting, notice exactly how reality reappears or re-manifests, and how the mental processes resume at an extremely fine level. This is best done by intending to notice it some time before the Fruition happens. Most people who have a Fruition are so relieved by it that the relief is most of what they notice, but those who can pay attention to more detail than that and do this well are afforded a rare treat—getting to see the processes that make up the functioning of our brains as they come online and orient to the surroundings, as well as to see the restarting of the sense of the illusion of duality, and exactly what makes that up in that powerfully clear attentional mode. It is fascinating stuff, and can lead to some serious clues about essential parts of the puzzle that help later. I recommend doing this again and again, as it generally takes going through it a good number of times to see what is really happening clearly and notice the assumptions we make about those processes and how they relate to things like “me”, “time”, “space”, and the like. Please note that there are at least two uses for the term nibbana, one of which is Fruition. The reference for this comes from the Abhidhamma or higher (abhi) dhamma (“teachings”, in this context), accessible in English as A Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma, by Narada Maha Thera, available free online and in print form. This is the standard Theravada literature on Buddhist mind-moment (Pali javana) theory and many other technical points, and it details that there will be three or four pulses of phenomena (typically called javanas, or “mind-moments”, “impulsions”, or dhammas) which, when they occur the first time, are Conformity, Path, and Change of Lineage, and then the mind will turn to nibbana and then the stream of ordinary sensate awareness will resume. [See A Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma, III §8 (12), p. 124, for more.] For those who actually do check out the Abhidhamma, which is a very good idea if you want to give more context, background, and support to your practice, you will notice that some of the biology seems pretty archaic, so don’t get derailed by that. The meditation theory remains quite helpful. Those who sometimes mention online and in person to me that they think that Mahasi Sayadaw or I made up this stuff about the ñanas, jhanas, stages, or other Buddhist theory, should read the Abhidhamma, or get your practice to the point where you yourself can perceive directly what these early followers of the Buddha perceived, and you will be satisfied by direct knowledge. At that point, the texts those followers wrote might make a lot more sense to you, and you may gain even more benefits by appreciating them based on your own practice instead of dismissing them based on ignorance.” Also from MCTB: “Then there is an attainment called “the cessation of perception and feeling” (Pali: nirodha samapatti, henceforth NS, or simply nirodha in my general way of speaking) that is hard to classify. The word “nirodha” (meaning “cessation”) is also sometimes used without the qualifier “samapatti” to refer to Fruition, so be careful to keep your terms straight when reading the old texts or speaking with others about these subjects. I always mean the cessation of perception and feeling when I use the word “nirodha”, but others often do not and may mean Fruition. This is the highest of the temporary attainments. It is discussed in multiple places, including sutta 44, “The Shorter Series of Questions and Answers”, from The Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha, in a talk given by a female arahant named Dhammadinna, and Path to Deliverance by Nyanatiloka, which draws from that fine text. You can also find it in commentaries, such as the Visuddhimagga, XXIII, 16, as well as in the last few pages of the Vimuttimagga. By the commentarial criteria at least, it can be attained only by anagamis and arahants who also have mastery of the formless jhanas. This attainment cannot be said to be either a state or not a state, nor can it be said to be strictly a concentration or an insight attainment, as it is attained by a fusion of both shamatha and vipassana and since it lacks a sensate basis for analysis, meaning there is no experience at all that can be analyzed, as perception and feeling have stopped. We attain NS by fusing insight and concentration practices in a gentle way that is much less precise than if we wanted to attain Fruition, as well as much less concentration-heavy than we would use if we were doing pure jhana practice. I find it slightly easier to attain NS when reclining, but the first time I attained it I was sitting. We rise through the shamatha jhanas in a low-key way with some light awareness of their true nature (the three characteristics), and then enter the eighth jhana (Neither Perception Nor Non-Perception), and then emerge from that state to that magical post-eighth junction point from which we might also attain the pure abodes. Technically, in the old texts we find that there are a few other points of set-up that we might do before this, including to make sure that we are not going to die before the state ends, resolving to wake up if summoned by the sangha, and some other minor details, but I have not found them necessary. Sometime shortly thereafter, and without warning or a very recent premeditation, we may suddenly enter the cessation of perception and feeling, or we might not, depending on whether we have met the entrance criteria and are not inclining to anything else. Please note that previous interest in attaining this during the preceding days or weeks tends to increase the chances of this attainment occurring, as do resolutions just before starting the ascent from the first through the eighth jhanas. As we get better at attaining this, we can slip in the inclination (resolution, intention) to attain it after emerging from the eighth jhana and then forget about it before dropping in. There is really nothing that can be said about this attainment, except for things that relate to entering, exiting, and the consequences of the attainment, all of which are unique to nirodha. The texts rightly say that, upon entering nirodha, verbal formations cease first, then physical sensations, then the whole of mental functioning ceases when the attainment is fully entered. This is traditionally explained as correlating to the first jhana, the fourth jhana, and then the entrance into nirodha, respectively. However, you may notice that in the three moments before cessation of perception sets in (during the complete power failure–like entrance) verbal formations, bodily formations, and mental formations cease in that order also in three consecutive and distinct moments, with the whole entrance taking about one-third of a second, like someone threw the master dimmer/power switch on sensate reality all the way down and the whole thing just shut off. The texts may have a double meaning, or may have been misinterpreted by scholars who had never themselves attained nirodha samapatti. I say this because it is still typical for bodily and verbal formations to arise between the eighth jhana and the entrance to NS, and thus the traditional interpretation does not hold up in experience. The texts also say that this attainment may last seven days or even longer (some say up to ten days), but I don’t personally know of anyone who has admitted to this occurring in their experience. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen, but it would probably require a long and sustained retreat beforehand to generate the necessary stability and stillness of mind. The duration of such attainments will be related directly to our concentration abilities, and these are very dependent upon practice conditions and how much concentration abilities have recently been exercised. Please also note that, like Fruition, there is no experience at all during NS. There is no time, no space, no something, no nothing, not anything at all. Just as a desktop computer shuts down totally when you press the power button, so too with anything to do with experience in NS. I have friends who have talked about something they got into where they could still feel time passing, and that is definitely not it. NS is like the ultimate rest for the mind, something far beyond even deep sleep, as even a few seconds in it leaves one with a massive feeling of having gone extremely deep in a way nothing else can match. Unlike Fruition, we exit this attainment in the reverse way we came in, with mental formations arising first, quickly followed by physical and then verbal formations in the characteristic analogue way of the entrance and with the same timing, like throwing on a big dimmer switch in about one-third of a second. After leaving this attainment, the mind tends to be a remarkable mixture of deeply peaceful while very clear, and our body tends to be very relaxed. The longer the attainment lasted, the stronger and longer-lingering this effect will be. I have found it to be by far the most impressive, long-lasting, and heavy of the afterglows of the various attainments, and have noted feeling the effects of it for up to about twenty-four hours afterwards. From my point of view, the whole point of attaining to NS (other than learning the level of control needed to attain to it, which has it own rewards for other avenues of spiritual development—and for just showing off and proving you can do it—is the amazing afterglow. Thus, I would not recommend attaining this immediately before entering into situations that require quick decisions or actions, such as driving in complex traffic. The texts say that we incline to solitude or quiet after attaining this state, and in general I agree. Loud noises and jarring situations can be particularly so after NS. Its afterglow is very conducive to deep relaxation, deep practice, deep insight, and deep magickal workings—that is if you can get up the emotional energy to care at all about those workings in the face of that stunningly chill afterglow. I talk about the powers later so, if the topic of magick bothers you, just pretend I didn’t write that. Say, “La, la, la, la, la …” in your head to clear the memory of it, or whatever. While I am nervous about the current trend to use meditation to create more productive, compliant, and docile worker-bees, I must admit that studying for my emergency medicine board exam one day in the afterglow of NS was like a dream come true. I could steadily plow through hundreds of pages for hours and hours with vastly less mental fatigue than I would have had in any other state I am familiar with. Aside from nirodha samapatti’s importance due to being included in some system’s criteria for various stages of awakening, it is worth mentioning this attainment because it is found today by real, living practitioners but has often been relegated to the realm of myth and legend or has been ignored or even forgotten entirely. It is not that nirodha samapatti is necessary, but it is a good and useful thing to be able to attain. In fact, I have not yet spoken with anyone who had attained it who didn’t consider it the absolute King Daddy of meditation attainments other than arahantship, as the depth of its afterglow never fails to impress and amaze. Hopefully, mentioning it will raise the standard to which people feel they can reasonably aspire, which is basically the whole goal of this book. One more little morsel for you brave adventurers … I have noticed that the easiest time to attain NS is usually a few weeks after attaining a path, when the vipassana jhana aspect of the progress of insight is becoming clear and a nice degree of mastery has been attained in that Review phase. However, it has this nice/nasty habit of helping to precipitate a new progress cycle, as the level of clarity gained in its wake is impressive, and clarity furthers insight. Thus, we may go from the best highs of a Review phase and NS’s glorious afterglow to the third ñana, A&P, and the Dark Night quickly. In fact, this seems to be a very natural part of many cycles of anagamis who also know the eight jhanas and how to ride the line between concentration and insight practices. One word of warning: NS’s afterglow is so extreme that it is easy to imagine that one has attained some new level of awakening, as the mind feels very, very different after NS has occurred, and residual hindrances and negative mind states may be very far away. Wait at least a few days after any dive into NS to see how those changes hold up in the face of the world before starting to draw any conclusions. I must say, there is something truly fairy-tale wonderful about NS. That you can pick up a book from about 2,000 years ago that gives complex instructions like some weird recipe for something you can do with your brain that you would have otherwise been extremely unlikely to know as even being possible, and that you can follow those instructions and they can actually work, blew my doors off the first time I did it. This stuff is just amazing! Yay, dharma!“

So Being is somehow not thought? Now that’s quite a confused thought to have, at least I think. I think it doesn’t make a difference either way ?

?? @SQAAD You and Leo are both the same “thing”, and it’s most certainly not you or Leo or any other fleeting appearance that is that thing.