Zorka

Hey people! I just had a very deep meditation (even though I am just meditating for a couple of days). In this meditation I sat down and just focused on my breath. After some while (I would guess around 15 minutes) I felt a deep sense of peace. And I tried to focus on my breath and on the present moment. But then suddenly I wanted to try to make the distinction between thought and awareness. I am currently reading "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle and I wanted to experience what he is writing about. So I focused on just experiencing my thoughts. After a while I noticed that my "experience" was just thinking about my thouhgts and analyzing them and philosophizing about them. Since every guru says that we cannot manipulate or control our thoughts since we are not the thinker I tried to prove to myself that I can think of whatever I want. So I said "Now I want to think about a bird" and "Now I want to think about cars" and it worked. But then suddenly I realized that all this was a thought. That the whole process of proving to myself that I can think what I want was a thought that I couldnt choose. Everything was just coming from somewhere. I had no control of my thoughts since the thought of control was just another thouhgt. Now the problem I am experiencing now is that I am not fulfilled by realizing that. I don't have a feeling of happiness or joy. I am just afraid. Because it feels like I am a robot being watched. I am just watching this machine doing whatever it does and I can't control it since this control is just the illusion of control. And I now feel confused, light headed and a bit instable. I feel detached from myself but not in a positive way as it was described in books and videos. I feel scared Do you have any thoughts that could help?

@mandyjw But it's very confusing to me. Because everyone describes this understanding as something positive. But for me it just scares the shit out of me and it feels like it makes me less effective in the daily life. Why should I continue to pursue it instead of falling back into illusion?

I want to add that what probably scares me is that the system that I identified with is running on its own. How am I controlling it? I am not influencing it at all. It feels like I am just watching what happens. I have never been this person. And this scares me because as I am writing this it feels like I am not writing this.

Hello people! First of all I want to mention that I am very open-minded. No matter what you tell me, I am going to think about it and reflect on it. My question right now however is: How to know if enlightenment is real? A lot of Gurus talk about it and also a lot of other People online. But how do you know that what you are experiencing is more than just insanity? Oftentimes people are having these awakenings after serious mental breakdowns. Sometimes they need years to achieve it. They read about it, they condition themselves, they meditate all day. How can you know that this is not just a mechanism of the mind? Even if it sounds stage orange to you, I think this is a question worth discussing. The reason I am asking this is because I am interested in spirituality a lot. But my problem is that I want to live the best life possible. And enlightenment would be part of it if I knew it was real. But I dont want to go on a journey just because some people (who MIGHT be deluded) are telling me to do so. How can I find the right way? How can I know I am not doing some bullshit with this enlightenment work? I hope you can help! Thank you!

@DocHoliday I mean the insights some people get while meditating or on Psychedelics. Stuff like "We are all one" or "You are God and I am God" or "There is no self"

@DocHoliday Yes of course the experience is real. But the question is if the insight you get is actually something truthful or not

@DrMobius I know I am not welcomed here with such questions but: How can you know that it isn't just the drug altering your state of consciousness and showing you some stuff that you think is real even though it isnt? Just because you are convinced that means nothing

@Leo Gura I get that you see it that way. But you probably know how it feels to not have the degree of consciousness and questioning all this with the rational mind. What can I do with the information that sanity and insanity is the same or real and unreal is the same? It doesnt get me anywhere. So I should just turn of my rationality and do something because someone says it's the right thing to do? I don't say it isn't and I am really interested but I need to know if there is really something valuable here.

@SoonHei Thank you very much for your answer! It brought some clarity even though it is very hard to grasp. So basicall what Zorka should do is just enagage in the practice until it turns himself off or goes silent for a second so that the real SELF can notice itself and awaken?

@WelcometoReality Ok and why would you say is it worth pursuing?

@SoonHei Sounds fine! But would you say that enlightenment makes you less capable and competent in the rest of life? Like business, relationships etc?

@WelcometoReality @WelcometoReality Of course not but what you describe is just seeking truth. My question is how you know that what you experience while "awakening experiences" is truth rather than delusion or a mind hack

@Fishy The question is just if it is worth pursuing. Because if it is just a mind hack I would not engage in it. If it is the way to truth however I would.

@seeking_brilliance Ok fair enough. But how can we know that it really works that way? How can we know that everything is consciousness? Even if we experience this "truth"? How can we know its an actual truth?

@NoSelfSelf But how do you know that it is real enlightenment and not just positive emotions of the brain? Don't get me wrong. I don't doubt that people really experience what they are describing. My question is: How do you know that it is real? That it is more consciousness? More Truth? And not just Illusion and tricks of the mind?