aurum

Slavery still technically happening, even in the US: https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/ As far as racial segregation, I think that would be tough. Society is already deeply racially integrated. And it's not clear to me that they're interested in that anyway. I do expect to at least see a rise in racial hate crimes though. People are going to feel like they have license for their worst impulses.

No. There has been no fundamental value flip. It was always this way.

Worse than that. I’m saying many of them never really did care. They only got democracy because they inherited it from those who came before them that did care. Authoritarianism is the more natural state. I’ve never really thought of myself as patriotic. I never really cared to sing America’s praises. In college, you could find me head banging to Rage Against the Machine and reading about socialism. I had many criticisms of America. So you would think that when an actual authoritarian threat like Trump comes around, people who love to think of themselves as patriots would be the first to fight against him. After all, isn’t democracy our top value? Isn’t democracy what makes us actually great? What separates us from the rest of the world? The thing we’ve been saying we care so much about for 200 years? But no. They mostly do not give a shit. They want what they want, and they will throw democracy out to get it if they have to. This is why a lot of the messaging that liberals put out about Trump being a threat to democracy landed flat. The average American is not developed enough to care about that.

That's even the sadder part. Voting against their own interests.

If Trump actually overrules democracy, potentially you would have a serious leader rise up to challenge him. My guess though is that such a movement would only have enough support once Trump actually does it. Things have to get bad enough for people to actually care. And even then, it might be more of a "Trump has made things so bad, we just need someone else" kind of movement. Rather than people actually caring about higher ideals like democracy. The most shocking thing about this election for me has been seeing people's apathy towards democracy. They just don't care. They care about their egg prices and all their other lower survival concerns. And they just want what they want, regardless of how or who is going to give it to them.

Brian Cohen did a good segment on this: Most likely route right now seems to be "Trump's first term didn't count...because ya know, impeachment".

Oh god. I have no faith in RFK to accomplish anything. Even if he has some good ideas, it's all outweighed by how delusional he is on obvious positions like vaccines. This alone disqualifies him from handling public health. And do people honestly think Trump and his goons are going to let RFK stick it to the corporations? Lol. Trump's administration and Republicans in office will handcuff anything genuinely progressive he tries to do. It'll all just be anti-science bullshit.

Yes, it's extremely disturbing. People are just not taking this seriously enough.

Why are you just assuming there will be another vote? There is no guarantee of that at this point.

The states will certainly have some power. If democracy falls, it will not just instantly fold like a house of cards. People will mount considerable resistance.

They essentially have all three branches now. Of course they're going to implement something akin to Project 2025, even if it isn't specifically that. This was never in doubt. This is why they wanted Trump in the first place. You couldn't do it with a more normie republican like Mike Pence.

There are still many appointees to made. Also, this is likely the best version of the cabinet we will see. As the admin progresses throughout their term, Trump may switch some of them out with even more unhinged candidates as they all become more extreme.

MSM has it covered: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/trump-administration-appointees/ This list is missing Elon and Vivek apparently being appointed for the new DOGE.

Leo's latest text post on political lessons was poetry. I have nothing else to add right now.

That would be my guess. He was on the campaign staff for RFK.

Maybe This debate is getting pretty abstract, as seems to happen a lot with you and I. That's because the two of you get under their skin. I'm definitely not saying right-wing ideology makes you more mature or desirable from a dating POV. But from how I conceptualize masculinity, yes. Or at least it's more exclusively masculine, like you said above.

Not in terms of worldview. The first group has a worldview that is more feminine. And that's because overall they're more developed, mature, integrated individuals that don't feel threatened by it. I disagree. It would come out even if politics weren't specifically being discussed. Yes and no. It is real masculinity. But it's just a less developed version. Yes you still would. Because right-wing ideology is more masculine. You don't need to be taught that it is.

It was always beyond the grasp of many of them. The younger generation just has the benefit of coasting off the development of previous generations. So in that sense it can be easier. Also, as Leo has been saying recently, you always have to account for larping. Being leftist can just be an identity or thing you do to fit in or feel cool when you’re younger. It doesn’t mean you really understand or appreciate why leftism matters and what it’s about.

They are certainly more stereotypically masculine than your average leftist, yes. And they offer a version of masculinity that is more relatable to younger guys because it is less mature, less developed. That’s the problem with the Dave Bautista ad that @Joshe posted. I can tell Dave is trying to relate to how a young dude would think. But the reality is that integrating leftism is just out of maturity range for a lot of these dudes. So even if they like Dave’s ad, fundamentally there is a mismatch in terms of values and development level. And no ad by itself can fix that.

Aubrey is being such a fool. The vaccine and anti-establishment nonsense destroyed this guy’s worldview.

Yes I'm sure. Your average young guy is going to value winning, domination, personal success, physical aggression, crushing your competition and feeling tough. This is all antithetical to the values of the left. The left wants social justice, equality and to curb people's ability to dominate. It takes some serious maturity as a guy to actually appreciate leftist values. Leftism just seems like it's for soft soy-boys when you're young. This is not just an issue of right-wingers winning the narrative war, this is a developmental issue.

That's the rub. What many of these young guys want is a toxic masculine role model. Because they themselves are somewhat immature, insecure and toxic. If you offer them a healthier version of masculinity, they will reject it.

If you don't like that idea, then I don't know what to tell you. The solution was to elect Kamala. Now we are in damage control territory. I'm you can find a way to help, but you need to be smart about it. Don't just start proposing crazy ideas. Be strategic and methodical. Make a plan. Probably best thing we can do right now is support the Dems in office. They are really the only ones now who have any ability to mitigate whatever is going to happen.

That would never work anyway. Certain groups always need more favor than others.

Just watched this as well. He's definitely right about a lot of young guys not wanting to feel like they're weak, soft or effeminate. The right-wing does give them masculinity, but generally a more toxic version of it. The left needs more role models young guys feel inspired toward. But also, even just recognizing who you should role model requires a level of maturity that some young guys don't have. So that's not a perfect solution either.