aurum

I probably shouldn't be supporting this thread as a mod, but some of these are pretty fucking funny

The reframe here is that you should LIKE that it's hard. And that you have to put in more effort. Here's why: The benefits of becoming more of an "alpha male" are tremendous. And not just because of the girls. You also get things like self-esteem, emotional mastery, purpose, etc. But if it wasn't hard, you would never change. What you're perceiving as you having to "try and be more alpha" is actually the emotional leverage you need to grow. Otherwise you would just stay the same. So even though it hurts, it's also a blessing. A girl who rejects you is supporting you. It's a reminder that it doesn't matter what other people think and to let go of needing approval. You say that being an "alpha male" isn't in your nature, but is that true? Did you come out the womb being negative, feeling like a victim and scared of rejection? Or was that a learned behavior you adopted due to experiences you had growing up? I actually feel like being an "alpha male" is the most natural thing there is for a guy. The fact that it isn't normal though is a testament of what's happening in society. Of course it's also hard to take this perspective when you're in the middle of it. But I think if you look at it objectively, you'll see that it's logical.

@Max_V I remember that session, good to hear you've made progress. Highly unlikely you'll find somebody like that. Most life coaches have no background in cold approach. I'm kind of a weird outlier in that respect. Your best bet is to go RSD. I forgot what city you're in, but they're a global brand that has events in every major city. And if you're not close to a major city, you need to find a way to get there. However you might not have the money for a $2500 bootcamp. So while you're getting money for that, I'd suggest doing two things: 1) Get male wingmen who are also learning cold approach. Search forums on the internet for guys who are doing it on your area. If you can find a local inner circle or mastermind, get in on that asap. Or you can do what I did and just build your own. 2) Get female friends who you don't nessesarily have sex with that are already going out. They will give you social proof and help you stay calibrated. Having that support system of peers is honestly going to be way more important that just taking a program for a couple of days.

I agree, you’re in a negative loop. You associate relationships with pain, so you’re not going to take any action. But because you don’t take any action, you don’t get the experiences that might show you that relationships aren’t something to run away from. So you stay stuck. Consider that if you do nothing, the result will be nothing. Even though girls tend to take a bit more of a passive role in dating, they’re still doing something. Girls your age might spend a couple hours getting all dressed up, put on makeup and go out to some bar or party. And even if they just spend the whole night dancing, they’re at least putting themselves in a situation where a guy they like could talk to them. I’m not saying you have to do that, that’s just an example. The point is nothing will come from nothing. Because of your MDD diagnosis and some of the other things you’ve said, I think there’s a deeper emotional issue here that needs to be addressed. Maybe some past trauma. I think if you heal that, you might be shocked how your relationship life starts to change.

I believe you, but that’s not the reason you’ve never been in a relationship. What’s behind this story? Your experience is definitely not average for most western women your age. But that doesn’t make it a reason to hate yourself either. You’ve ask been single for so long that being in a relationship is outside your comfort zone. It’s just not “normal” for you, and we tend to resist anything that isn’t normal for us. If a reltionship is what you want, what action are you taking to make that happen?

@vinett The ego always wants what it doesn’t have and loves to compare. Even if you become a professional footballer, you’d probably be sitting here writing about “but what if I became an artist??? I went to this art gallery this weekend and I don’t know, sometimes I just really feel like maybe I made a mistake”. You have a good situation going for you. That’s so rare. Most people’s lives are fucked. Have some gratitude, and go crush the art world.

@CroMagna Find a course in your area, take the course. Now you’re a web developer. The thing that I think is more important here is if “being a loner” is what you really want to base your career on. Or is that just a path of avoidance?

@Viking Nice man! Way to stick with it and not quit.

@Gryner It sounds like you did some really heavy purging. Going from no meditation practice to a 10 day retreat is hardcore, especially if you have a lot of issues you haven’t purged already. Keep in mind Leo didn’t just come out the gate doing 10 day retreats. He built up to it. Best thing to do at this point is just to stay present to everything that happening. Take time off from anything too stressful or more spiritual work. I would also research the mental / emotional symptons of purging and see if they match up with your experience.

Co-dependent, independent, interdependence. Most people are in co-dependence with society. They depend on some job to give them money and pay their bills. They depend on politicians to make decisions for them. It's ultimately based on fear and creates all these toxic situations. So the way I interpreted something like what Leo is talking about is getting people to become more independent. This is where people start to take responsibility for their own lives. They become more pro-active. They unhook off of unhealthy addictions and realize they don't need anyone or anything. However, I think you can go beyond this. The full circle is coming into interdependence. Interdependence is realizing that in reality, everything is connected. No one has ever accomplished anything on their own, everything and everyone gets support from something else. Fish need water, plants need sunlight, employers need employees, etc etc etc. It's a subtle difference but the quality of motivation is much different.

At the end of the day, that is something only you can decide. For some guys it is, for some guys it isn't. Personally I think it's awesome. It's crazy fun once you get the hang of it and you'll develop a lot of skills that will serve you later in life. Just make sure that whatever you decide, you go full out. One of only reasons I got better in this area was because I told myself I would learn cold approach even if it killed me. Guys who don't have that level of commitment usually just dabble around and then quit once they realize how hard it is.

@beatlemantis Yeah your boyfriend unfortunately ignored / is unaware of the golden rule of threesomes. You have to let your main girl know she is more important. He also sounds like he has some jealousy about the other guy. Could be that he thinks you’re the best he can do, so he doesn’t want to lose you.

Yeah I get it, it's hard to put it into words. I'm struggling as well. I think it's when the self concern has become too heavy. Self concern can be good in the sense of taking care of your body, going after your dreams, setting boundaries, etc. But this is self concern with a dark side. The best way to put it would be that you've lost sight of what really matters. Let's say you're in a relationship with someone and you love each other. But then you get into this huge fight, and all you can do is argue over who is right or wrong. You're inflicting pain on each other. At a certain point, does it really matter who is right or wrong? Both of you could die tomorrow. And if that happened, all you'd probably want to do is spend that last day loving each other. You would realize that your argument was petty and ultimately irrelevant. It didn't matter. So I'd say "petty" is often a way we describe the behavior of someone stuck in ego. You could use other terms, but "petty" is definitely a good one.

@Gustav It’s when your concerns are very small and selfish. For instance, if someone got really angry because they lost their 10% off coupon, I think most of us would agree that’s very petty. It’s not a big deal. You have to be careful though, because it can be very easy to judge people as “petty” when you just don’t agree with them. Everyone’s experience is real to them. Ironically, if you’re going around calling everyone petty, you’re probably being petty.

@Your place at Heart Don’t let appearances fool you, Elliot Hulse is a very developed guy. I’ve said this before in other threads, but there are some accurate perspectives in MGTOW. It’s not all bad. The issue I have is similar to what Leo was saying. It’s generally a very low vibration, angry, victim mentality kind of environment. Which skews a lot of even the good things they have to say. That being said, let’s not shame people who are MGTOW. That would be falling into the same trap. If you were a guy in their situation, you’d be angry and feel like a victim too. Ideally a guy eventually grows out of that. But even if he doesn’t, that’s not for us to judge.

@Shin It’s tough to watch someone you care about go through that. You just want to shake them and be like “don’t you see it? Don’t you see there’s a better way?” But it sounds like you’ve tried to help to at least a certain degree and she still doesn’t want to change. That’s not your responsibility. If you feel like you’re the hero that has to save her you make her a victim. And she’s not. Consider that you don’t know. Consider that as much as you feel like you might know what is good for her, that’s still your limited perspective. Maybe this is a lesson she needs to learn. Or maybe there’s some good that will come of this that you can’t even predict because it’s not going to show itself until years down the road. You just don’t know. So really, I would look into this: Why not? What does it mean if you fail to help her? P.S welcome back to the forum

@kieranperez Dope man, keep it up.

@daniel695 It's not going to happen over night. Likely what is going to happen is you're going to have to keep experiencing the ramifications of your misaligned thoughts until you just KNOW that it's bullshit. The good news though is that change really is possible. You just have to put in the work. Some sort of mindfulness practice will also help here, whether it's meditation or yoga or whatever. That will create some space between you and your thoughts.

I don't think it's possible to have an unsuccessful journey. Whatever you experience is what you were meant to experience, good or bad. That being said, I think what it makes it enjoyable for me is constantly challenging myself. Constantly learning. And making the choice to "be the light" wherever you go.

Distraction from doing your own work.

Anxiety purge. It will be uncomfortable but practice just staying in no matter what. It’s your responsibility to make it go somewhere. Are you using statements of intent? Teases? If you’re just making small talk then of course it’s not going to go anyway, you haven’t even tried.

No, I agree. The lone wolf thing is not a helpful concept for most people. I always saw it as a temporary thing, where you might isolate yourself if necessary so that you could then reemerge and reengage with life from a better place. Kind of like going into training. It wasn't meant to be an end goal.

Interesting, how so?

@kingroboto It's a good stepping stone for modern men. Most guys are very attached to women and validation in general, so severing that link and becoming more independent / self-reliant is a good start. However, nothing in life is actually independent. Your muscles need your heart to pump blood and oxygen. The trees need the sun. Fish need water. So I believe you can go beyond MGTOW and still engage with women in a much more healthy, high vibration way.

That's a good argument and I agree with a lot of it. But I'd also say it lacks nuance. For instance, if you read the book A Path With Heart by Jack Kornfield, he talks about how he thought he was enlightened because he was doing a lot of solo meditation work. Only to come back into the "real world" and find that many of his same problems remained, they just weren't being tested when he was in isolation. Also, you could argue that a more direct method is not necessarily superior to an indirect method. Often indirect is far better. Yes I do. There's a couple of reasons why I get like that. What I've found at this point in my journey is that the spiritual is not more important than the physical, and the physical is not more important than the spiritual. Every time I prioritize one too much over the other, I get metaphorically slapped. Everyone on this forum is more or less motivated to do the inner work. But there tends to be a lack of emphasis on producing tangible outcomes. I think that's a mistake. So I like to come in and give an alternative perspective, as opposed to just more spiritual truisms like "success won't make you happy". Understand, because I'm a mod and have a bit of a rep, I get messages from guys who will say things like "I'm 20 years old and living in my parents basement. I've never had a girlfriend. But I don't care about that, how do I become enlightened?" And I just facepalm every time. It's massive spiritual bypassing. I fall into it too. Spiritual work becomes your new comfort zone that you actually use to avoid the real problems in your life. That's fine. Go do as much isolation work as you want, I've done a ton myself. But I think you're going to find that even after all that work, there's a pull to reengage. I don't see it that way at all. I understand the actual content is obviously different, but to me it's still all the same.