aurum

Ultimately there has to be some process by which you get to know someone. And that process by definition will start with less probing, less commitment. Really it's not a question of "should I keep it light?" or "should I be super serious?". It's a question of when and how much. Also, you can do both simultaneously. I can keep our interaction quite light on the surface, while internally I'm actually looking at her quite closely and making judgments. "Seriousness" does not have to be explicit. Once I'm confident I see long-term potential, I will stop seeing other people pretty fast. Could easily be 3-5 dates and we are there.

You can make the distinction practically. It might be useful at times. But ultimately the distinction has to collapse.

Truth is not the same thing as authenticity. It's not possible to cleanly distinguish between the authenticity / performance binary. Truth is meta.

Both are possible. Performance and truth are not mutually exclusive.

It's ironic because a lot of people who talk about frame control also care about male leadership. But a man who cannot take feedback and adjust is arguably way more of a dangerous leader than one that can. Trump is the perfect example. Trump has insane frame control, but he does it by completely blocking out truth and trying to distort reality. Trump is like the Sith Lord of frame

Control is a problematic way of thinking about it, but frame itself is useful as a concept. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I think of it like frame gravity. You don't need to control anything. You just care about truth. Truth has a gravity to it.

Dude, no. You're already a pretty good-looking guy. That is not your issue. Do you want a girlfriend? What are you looking for?

My use of "they" was referring to the redpillers. Of course feminists are also self-biased. But that's a different topic.

Their understanding of feminism alone is so obviously self-biased.

Not necessarily though. Because yes, Blue is good at commitment. But look at what it sacrifices for that commitment. It requires radical self-repression and conformity. Development is not straightforward, linear progress. It's a twisted, counter-intuitive process of evolving tradeoffs. You're probably worse at commitment precisely because you came from a more developed culture than your grandparents.

You can have commitment at any level. Blue can be extremely good at commitment. Blue is your grandparents who stayed together for 50+ years. So it's definitely not just a function of Green. Green can actually struggle with commitment because it cares so much about its authentic expression, rather than making the sacrifices needed for commitment.

It's complicated. At Blue, sexuality tends to get repressed hard for the sake of social order. Blue values self-sacrifice, submitting to a higher power and conformity. Although because development is still so low, there's a lot of hypocrisy and failing to live up to ideals. Orange opens up the repression of Blue. You're not living for a higher power anymore, so you might as well chase worldly pleasure, including sex. But sex can become very emotionally disconnected, transactional or mechanical. Green really values authentic self-expression and starts to open up to a radical relativism. This includes around any sexual shame or emotional repression. Sexuality is also valued more for its intimacy and vulnerability rather than achievement.

Yes exactly. And it certainly has no baring on physical attraction itself. Which is why guys have no problem getting off to their favorite pornstar, who has way more bodies than any woman he has met in real life. The aversion, if it all, comes when he starts thinking about commitment. But honestly I think the danger is mostly overblown. Body count alone is just not enough to tell you anything conclusive. You need to observe way more about her than that.

It's some combo of Orange and Green. Orange can be very individualistic and hedonistic compared to Blue.

That makes it a survival heuristic. It doesn't tell us what is true. Nor do we have to listen to it.

"Body count" is, at best, a proxy for an ability to bond and be loyal in a relationship. The problem is that a number alone doesn't answer that question. There's also a question of correlation vs causation, i.e high body count doesn't cause a loss of pair bonding, but it might be correlated with someone who doesn't have much interest in that. Ultimately you just have to look at the behavior of the woman you're dating. If she's bonding and is loyal, it doesn't matter if she has zero or a hundred bodies. SD Orange / Green also brings a lot of sexual liberation. So a slightly higher body count can actually indicate higher development and a greater connection to their own sexuality compared to SD Blue. Someone who has not gone through that liberation will have a pretty repressed relationship with their sexuality.

Wasn't my intention to insult, it just seemed like a fit. Everyone is working on different things.

Watched a bit of the interview. He's seems good for everything you're working on.

You had a poly relationship?

Knew @LordFall was gonna hop on this My biggest concern with poly is that you are going to be expending way too much time and energy on romantic relationships. I need solitude and time for sense-making and spirituality.

You are describing all the primary goals and values of SD Green.

Many reasons. Think of all the assumptions being made when you assume free, open sharing is automatically better.

Yes, good example of holding frame. IRL though, it's not necessarily this overt. Frame can be extremely subtle.

@Miguel1 I think you know some of my thoughts on this. It sounds like you are organizing your dating life around maximal disclosure. For you, the more vulnerability and openness, the better. That is not how I think about dating. Disclosure needs strong boundaries, especially during the early stages of meeting someone. You don't just dump everything on them. You should be selective with what you share. I do not consider that discernment a violation of truth.