BlackPhil

I know. But since Leo and many others say love is the most fundamental property to god/reality, I think saying intelligence (like Sadguru did) is just as accurate.

There are both positive and negative entities you can summon and interact with using different rituals, and you dont even need psychedelics so see them after some training. Some can aid you in your awakening, some can aid your ego in other areas of life, and some can mess you up pretty badly. This dream of god contains alot more than what meets the eye.

https://forum.becomealivinggod.com/ On this forum you can find more people that are into that kind of stuff. Left hand path work. How to summon or banish spirits etc. I did some meddling in that occult stuff when I was younger. It works but be careful. Used to do alot of AP when younger, without proper protection. Some spirit/demon from the astral plane then started visiting me, almost every night. Giving me sleep paralysis, and was violently attacking my astral body, sucking energy so every morning when I woke up I felt so drained I could barely leave the bed. Was a very terrifying experience. That entity sounded like a wild beast, clawing my energy body etc. Found that forum and some guy there helped me with a sigil and banishing ritual that I did for a while. It worked. I didnt believe in that stuff before it happened to me. Just had spontaneous astral projections without knowing it could be risky or that those kind of spirits even was a thing.

Ive heard Sadguru propose that intelligence is in a way more fundamental to reality/god than love. I think I also lean towards that way of seeing it; with infinite intelligence comes infinite love because infinite intelligence will "understand" that nothing could be more important than universal love and therefor becomes it. Seems more reasonable than to say that infinite intelligence comes out of infinite love? Edit: Dont mean the last sentence literally but just putting it like that to question why love would be more fundamental to the universe than intelligence.

I think learning more about these things could be relevant for ones awakening though. Because of the fact that most people simply wont achieve full awakening during their current lifetime I think having a clue of wether or not their progress towards it atleast in some way stays with them in the potential next ones can play a great role in how they approach the work right now. If everyone becomes fully awake after physical death whats the point of even putting any real effort towards it during your current short experience as human?

Too tired now, cant type correctly. Can continue discussion tomorrow maybe have a good night

Yeah, well what you define as death is a wordgame. Up for interpretation. Doesnt really matter what you call it aslong as the person listening understand what youre pointing towards. This particular thread was about what might occur after the physical body dies/stops working atleast. That doesnt necessarily mean its the end of separation beliefs, nor the death of the nonphysical components of the separation. Prefer to call it total awakening or something like that when talking about complete loss of separation beliefs. Im no believer in the kind of rebirth where you keep anything noticeable of your previous identity. Atleast not consciously or in any way physically accessible. But there are layers to "reality" like I said, some that have no resemblance to what we can conceptualize or measure using human intelligence or means, so I cant really decribe it in words. But I assume you also had mystical experiences/breakthroughs etc? If so you will probably have an open mind to the possibility of some kind of "essence" of your individuated consciousness staying intact through different incarnations/experiences. This essence is ofc consciousness itself like the rest and its unlimited. Therefor I dont see it as impossible that it could keep some properties/individuality through different dreams/egos w/e. Im not really talking about memories of the kinds we have now from our current imaginary lifes. More like a memory of what state of consciousness you have aquired that could follow you through lifetimes on your evolution towards becoming fully awake/nondual. I dont personally have any experience of past life memories or stuff like that but if someone could have the ability to reach a state of consciousness from which this "data" stored could somehow be analysed and manifested as memories, I dont know. But nothing is impossible. Its still worth trying to find out more. If nothing else, its interesting, and Im a person seeking knowledge. Even if there is no separation ultimately we still have to deal with the appearance of it being until we awaken fully. So until that happens it doesnt really do anything just knowing it and experiencing it during short breakthrough peaks.

Yes, but now youre talking about awakening. What I mean with death in this thread is the (imaginary) death of the physical body. I dont see it as a guarantee (or even likely) that people in general will fully awaken just because their physical body dies. I think this only happens to those who are enlightened/have reached a very high state of consciousness at the moment of their physical death. The majority of people wont be conscious enough to fully break through all the layers just because their physical "probe" stops working. I know from experience (which seems to match what many yogis, sages etc through history has explained) that our false, separated ego-self is made up of more "bodies" than just the physical one. This particular "reality", dreamed up by the godhead, also consists of more "planes" than merely the physical one. This you can experience yourself through various means like AP etc. These different metaphysical planes/dreams are pretty consistent in their structure and how they manifest for people, not just random. They also seem to operate under specific systems, rules and "logic", much like this physical one but different. They are ofc ultimately imaginary, but no more or less than the physical plane. The astral plane for example seem to have "areas", entities and other phenomena that can be experienced and interacted with by different people/egos visiting, independent of eachother. This indicates that they are not just merely an individual egos personal manifestation/dream, but infact an intelligently designed creation by you/me/godself, there to fill a function as another part of the whole creation. Since our separated selves appear to "exist" on these other planes aswell, independent of the physical body, I dont think our ego will stop experiencing itself as separate on all levels automatically just because it loses its physical mask. Just like its not an easy thing to stop imagining yourself as a separate self in this physical dream (I mean maintaining it, not peak breakthrough experiences), I think the same will apply on the astral, and all other layers this dream may consist of. Just looking at the incomprehensibly complex system operating this physical dream, making it all work together as one, towards evolution, I have a very hard time believing this system doesnt keep following a predesigned pattern beyond physical death. My own intuition, and what Ive found out from researching the matter, is that we will be given a possibility to break free and awaken from the, so called, wheel of karma when we leave our physical bodies. Most egos (in our current stage of evolution) will not be developed enough or ready to completely let go and merge with infinity though If there is the slightest resistance, attachment or fear left in you it will stop the process and you will remain as a separate self. Perhaps youll be stuck on some of the non-physical planes in gods imagination until whats left of your previous identity, memories etc is erased/fades away enough for "you" to take the form of some other false self and start again. Im not certain if exactly everything of your individual "spirit" or energy (call it w/e) fades away tho, I dont think it can unless you fully merge with the godhead. That little essence of whats left could maybe explain past life regression and things like that some people report. Could also play a part in what your base level of consciousness will be in your next manifestation. Much of this is ofc speculation but I definitly think there atleast is some type of system like this we will follow. I dont believe gods evolutionary design just turns into random dreams all of a sudden and I also dont think youll awaken fully after physical death unless youre developed enough to embrace it with 0 resistance. Even if you can handle a breakthrough trip that wont be the same thing as completely and forever maintaining nondual consciousness. Then there are ofc occult practitioners throughout history that claims its possible to use methods, black magic and stuff in order to obtain more selfish gains for their ego like choosing exactly who/what you will be when reincarnating etc. This I dont know much about but I have an open mind for what could be possible. Edit: In any case Im certain these things can be explored alot more than some people think. The mentality some people have when saying its impossible to know/pointless to discuss etc is the same kind of mindset people who dismiss the possibility of awakening using psychedelics (without even having tried) have. That mindset doesnt really help you if youre into this work, exploring spirituality and these kinds of things imo.

If youre not supposed to speculate on a discussion forum Leo might aswell shut it down because there is nothing more to say.

Well, its only speculation until you find out a way to learn more. Reaching awakened states using psychedelics was only speculation until someone discovered the method and tried it. Also I think it can be very problematic to just ignore these things. For instance it seems like alot of people get the idea that they will merge into the godhead when their physical body dies no matter what. This belief can make people do very foolish things, hurting themselves or others etc. Therefor I dont think discussing these things, trying to find more answers, is a waste of time at all. Im not saying it isnt possible that you actually go non-dual after physical death, but from my own experiences and from listening to yogis etc I think its highly unlikely that is what happens for the everyday person.

Is what you are saying true for you in your direct experience right now in your current state of consciousness? Obviously not or you wouldnt appear to be writing on this forum. Its very foolish and pointless to conceptualize the ultimate truth when your'e not conscious of it in your current state. Its a common thing people new to this tend to do (I did it myself some years ago), you will soon find out its not helpful. As long as you appear as a so called human you will have to adjust to that. If youre not interested in anything but parroting tautologies of the godstate fine, but go do it in another thread please.

Yes thank you, we know. So why are you even writing, or imagining you are? This thread is not about the ultimate like Ive said many times now.

Why do you think the false self is limited to only the physical body? Im pretty certain the deception contains of many more layers before reaching the truth. Both my own experience and what Ive heard from many other experienced people tells me this is the case.

Ah, thank you for the answer! I assumed that was your position aswell but I wanted to clarify. Then we are on the same page. Keep up the good content!

Things are as they appear for you in your current state of consciousness. As long as you appear to yourself as a separate entity, that is whats real to you. It is an illusion from the ultimate perspective yes, but its foolish to neglect the illusion while still appearing to be stuck in it yourself as an ego. Some people (like in this thread) embrace nonduality intellectually and then threat everything that isnt the ultimate as irrelevant, even if they obviously are stuck in illusion themselves still, if they werent they wouldnt write like that in the first place. It becomes an ego thing.

Life and death are both only concepts, symbols we use to describe something and nothing with. Both of you kind of sounds like you've just found out about non-duality and are now just parroting obvious phrases. If you feel completely done with this illusion then sit down and fade away. Im not stopping you. But if not, even you are bound to the rules of the maya illusion as long as you imagine yourself to inhabit this body. There is nothing stopping one from exploring this illusion for aslong as one feel fit for it. I know death is not a thing in the sense many people think of it. But it can still be used as a concept. What it means all depends on how the one hearing it interprets it

Im aware of this too. This thread is not about whats ultimately true from the ultimate perspective, like I said. To communicate in this imaginary space we must use these imaginary concepts in lack of other alternatives, as long as we imagine ourselves stuck in this illusion of form. Just assume Im aware of those obvious things please. Unless your ego has already in this moment achieved complete loss of identification with self or form you also have to play under the rules of the game. If you cant handle it maybe Mahasamadhi is the way. I on the other hand still have some attachment to this imaginary existence (which is very faschinating aswell btw even if its nothing and nowhere) and Im curious about more imaginary details. So please stick to the subject.

Im aware of this too. But we have to call the changing of forms something, death is whats commonly used. You dont have to think of the usual concept of death people have just because you hear that word. Death for me doesnt mean what it does conventionally.

This plane of reality is clearly a system working in a specific way. Systems can be explored. It is possible to visit other planes with other systems. Even if we can never grasp the full thing we can still learn more details/parts about the metaphysical, just like we can of the physical.

Well, suffering is a very real and common occurrence god is putting itself through here on this plane too. Ive experienced it, likewise have countless versions of me/egos. Since gods imagination is infinite it must per definition also include planes/experiences with infinite suffering. Even if it cannot be permanent because only finite things busy with surviving has to be concerned about suffering. Still, Im not really afraid of those things. Because its nothing we can do, it is what it is. What is possible tho is to explore these different planes and try to learn more if youre curious.

Yes, Im aware of this. That its the case from the ultimate version of me. That everything that happens is as should be from the perspective of god. Still that could theoretically (or practically even) mean that ones ego could go to literal hell next. Even this could be absolute love and perfection from the ultimate perspective, I know. Knowing that intellectually as an ego doesnt really make that potential experience less hellish for the ego though. The only real escape is ofc to wake up to your true self and that is the entire dilemma we're talking about. I dont think that happens after the imaginary egos imaginary death just like that, as some people seem to believe.

Very likely for someone who has reached the state of consciousness where this can be manifested from. Im not sure its that simple if you havent tho. Edit: I mean, as you can see in this physical reality god/me/you created, nothing with real value is given out for free. Instant gratification is a shortcut to suffering. If its designed like that here I doubt that doesnt apply later on aswell.

Ive seen questions related to this here before and often people seem to find the need to point out that psychedelics are so much more powerful than the planes you can reach when astral projecting etc. And I know, thats not the point here. Im not here to compare the states of consciousness reached by the two different things. So skip those answers please, youre missing the point. Even if your current normal human state of consciousness is insignificant compared to the states you reach when peaking on your trip it doesnt take away the fact that when you come down you are still stuck in your human body and have to deal with it best you can. Therefor its not wise to just ignore phenomena inbetween the finite and the infinite, because even the finite things can prove being a huge challenge as long as you also are stuck in a finite form.

I remember when the swine-flu vaccine was pushed out around 2009. Here in Sweden more people than the amount that died or got seriously ill from the disease in question later developed narcolepsy and other life-ruining symptoms from the vaccine. That vaccine was not new or rushed out like these new ones. Just saying. Edit: Overall Im definitly not a so called anti-vaxxer. Its a whole different thing to take well tested vaccines against dangerous diseases like yellow fever etc. Another thing to hysterically call for mass vaccination of the whole population with untested ones like this. Having all the big-pharma companies compete for profit and speed.

There is a very big difference between believing in all the craziest conspiracy theories out there versus being critical and distrustful of big, capitalist companies that already have a very shady record on their necks. The very same companies that pushed opioids on people (causing another kind of epidemic), the same companies that continuously are lobbying against natural medicine in order to patent harmful lab-created drugs for profit etc. The list goes on. Right now these craziest conspiracy theorists are being lumped together with people who are (rightfully so) critical of trusting these bigpharma-companies to inject a very rushed, new form of vaccine into the whole population in order to stop a virus with a relatively low death rate for atleast younger people. Its very lazy and stupid in my opinion.