GreenWoods

That could be taken to argue there is more consciousness outside

From what I know, most of such unpleasant kundalini symptoms happen from spontaneous kundalini awakenings. From what I know good shaktipat transmissions are the safest and smoothest way to awaken the kundalini. It might sound a bit contradictory, because shaktipat is also the most potent way to awaken kundalini, and thus speeds the whole process up. But it does everything with more intelligence and gentleness, and blocks are easier dissolved, therefore it seems to be overall smoother in most cases. Even after the biggest part of the kundalini awakening is over, I think receiving shaktipat transmissions can still support and make things smoother and increase bliss. Gareth Duignam gives very good shaktipat transmissions. He gives live group transmissions on youtube and zoom every Monday, Tuesday and Friday. There are other great transmission givers too.

If the ego lived in a perfect heaven which is guaranteed to be permanent then there is no reason to fear losing it and it will be happy. All the reasons why egos aren't happy only apply to this imperfect realm we are currently living in. Yes. Dreamless sleep falls under either of these three possibilities: It is unconsciousness and therefore doesn't exist There is consciousness and your ego functions during dreamless sleep There is consciousness but the ego is not able to function at this state and therefore relative to it, dreamless sleep is unconsciousness. But there is some consciousness there during dreamless sleep and relative to that consciousness, dreamless sleep exists. Space is form too. If something exists, it is form. Existence = form Non-existence = complete formlessness/unconsciousness Absolute Infinity/Existence is unlimited and therfore is every form. But without complete formlessness, because that's non-existence. As for everything else you wrote, I think we just disagree. You explained your perspective and I mine. Any further discussion would just be repeating the same.

I think all of that are possible consequences of a higher magnitude. But I don't think it describes the raw difference of a higher magnitude of consciousness, what higher magnitude literally is. The magnitude dimension is the most difficult dimension to explain. When you experience a higher magnitude it will probably become clear what higher magnitude means. No, that's a psychic power. A higher magnitude tends to increase power, but not always. For example if you increase your magnitude with psychedelics, your psychic powers could increase slightly, but usually not proportionally to the magnitude increase. But if you compare all these astral entities to humans, then I think their difference in magnitude is somewhat related to their difference in psychic power. With advanced invocations I mean invoking gods, angels or ascended masters for long meditation sessions. And it requires a certain level of energetic sensitivity and maybe also a bit of open psychic senses in general. Otherwise these invocations won't do much. I described the "how to" Here.

@Consilience maybe you are right. Or maybe you don't appreciate the VAST differences in advanced levels of enlightenment between different people. Sure, attaining no self and recognizing that you are consciousness and attaining oneness is relatively easy, most people can do that with diligent effort. If we look through the lense of my model of dimensions of consciousness, then enlightenment has 4 main dimensions: Illumination, void, intensity and magnitude. And each dimension goes infinitely high.

Indeed! My understanding is that there is no difference between the substratum and appearances. They are one. That's nonduality for me. The ego exists relative to ego consciousness. No self is true relative to enlightenment consciousness. No self is false relative to ego consciousness. Based on my understanding, when someone is in ego consciousness, then Brahman or God literally doesn't exist (relative to that state). That's what it means that Truth is what is, that every state is Absolute. Suffering is not inherent to the ego. The ego is perfectly happy if it gets everything it wants. Suffering only happens if the ego doesn't get what it wants. Which happens as a result of Infinity's/God's unbiased nature. In my opinion, it's not the ego's but God's 'fault' that suffering exists. If there were only a biased God (biased towards happiness). Then only happiness would exist and all egos were happy. That means biasedness can create only happiness without suffering. But an unbiased God inevitably has to create biased egos who don't experience what they want and thus suffer. Suffering is therefore a inevitable consequence of God's unbiased nature, imo. The more unbiased you are, the more you perpetuate suffering. Yes, you only know the present state. That means I disagree with Advaita Vedanta then. In my opinion "pure" consciousness as in absolutely formless doesn't exist. There is always some form. Therefore there is no difference between formful and formless, because it's just gradiations. Or more accurately, complete formlessness doesn't exist. It's all formfullness, and it has different gradiations. And consciousness/existence is this formfulness. As long as there is consciousness there is form. Because consciousness is form. Existence = form = consciousness Complete formlessness would be unconsciousness and nonexistence, therefore it doesn't exist.

I think these are relatively insignificant factors. How many people of those who fullfil all these criteria and spend as much time as Mooji or Sadhguru or Dalai Lama, or Mother Meera attain the same level as these? Most masters work their ass off too. But most of their progress is thanks to genentics and not hard work. I think 99% of people could meditate for 1 million hours and would still be far from Jesus, Buddha, Krishna or Babaji.

@Shambhu Seems like we are just having different opinions. I don't see enlightenment or Brahman consciousness as more funtamental or real than ego consciousness. Non-existence non-exists. Existence exists. Everything that can exist exists. Existence is consciousness. So a pure formless state of consciousness or Brahman consciousness or any such high states, are just as much a natural consequence of Infinity/existence as an ego state is. Because existence is consciousness. And consciousness includes every possible state, the formless Brahman just as much as the formful ego state. Relative to Brahman, the ego state is illusory. Relative to the ego state Brahman is illusory. Reality is Absolutely relative. Relative to Brahman consciousness, the ego is a hallucination. Relative to ego consciousness, Brahman is a hallucination. All of these above statements are equally true. When you come full circle, enlightenment is not more special than ego consciousness. Rather than saying form appered out of formlessness you could just as well say that formlessness appeared out of form. None of these two is more fundamental. Form did not appear out of formlessness, it is just here, as a consequence of Existence/Consciousness, just like the Brahman state. Existence is not one certain state, rather it is ANY state, or the sum of all possible states. My concept of Absolute Infinity contains infinitely many finite and infinite parts/consciousnesses. Because I conceptualize Absolute Infinity as Existence. And Existence is unlimited, therefore it contains all possible things/consciousnesses/bubbles. The consequence of that is that there have to be infinitely many finite and infinite bubbles/consciousnesses. States don't appear to something prior to themselves. States appear to themselves. Indeed. Relative to the current state, the previous state doesn't exist anymore. A state is fundamentally just consciousness. But from a more dualistic perspective, a state is made of consciousness and appearances within consciousness. But nonduality collapses that distinction.

@Shambhu Reality is not one certain way. Reality/Infinity is made of infinitely many states of consciousness. No state is inherently more real, formlessness is not more real or true than form. Reality and Truth is what is, therefore every state is Absolute. (I would say every state is Absolute relative to itself. But if Reality is Solipsistic the way Leo has said in the past, then saying it is Absolute relative to itself is the same as just saying it is Absolute.) Consciousness is Absolute but it can shapeshift into Infinitely many different states and 'forms'. In that regard it is not unchanging. But you could also say, everything is consciousness and only the appearances within consciousness change, in that regard consciousness is unchanging.

I've never been on an external retreat or visited monks in a monastery (but I did meet and talk with people who are or were monks for years). I've done several retreats at home. All in all I've probably done close to 7 000 hours of spiritual practices, including normal meditation, self inquiry, kriya yoga, sleep yoga, transmissions, invocations,.... My assessment of these masters was based on intuition and speculation. My assessment on most monks is based on what I've read online and on some videos I watched of monks. If I watch a video of someone I can somewhat intuit that person's void dimension, and to a lesser extend Illumination and magnitude dimension too. It's not accurate but I think it usually fits to some extend. At least far more accurate than an assessment that I would have done a few years ago with far less intuitive perception. Would you disagree that most monks haven't reached Mooji's level? Meditation can lead to enlightenment. But for any serious level of enlightenment, I think that would require many decades or it requires you to be talented. If someone makes good enlightenment process with meditation, then that is the sign that this person is naturally talented. As Batman was saying, meditation has different strengths. Like happiness, peace, mental and emotional mastery, self awareness, focus,...

I think that's usually the case. When someone is already very advanced (for example due to past lives) and then incarnates again, then that person usually is very genetically gifted. So I think a high level of advancement causes good genetics. Maybe, when the person isn't born yet or when the person is still very young, the brain is probably a lot more mallable and then consciousness or the soul or just the psychic power of that person naturally changes genetics. That's just one possible explanation though. In this explanation, the genetics based on luck would still play some role. Because if the genetics are already great due to luck, then it will be easier for the soul to cause even better genetics.

@Swarnim Magnitude Dimension A lower magnitude would feel like becoming a mouse. A higher magnitude would feel like becoming a god like Zeus. (But it doesn't neccesarily mean to become more powerful). A higher magnitude is what materialists would consider higher or more consciousness when they think of very advanced aliens. Higher magnitude dimension is having a higher consciousness. "Higher" not in the sense of higher Illumination dimension, or higher alertness, or more presence or more ethical (these other things could increase too, as a result. But not necessarily.) Imagine the consciousness of a mouse has the magnitude value of 1, every human 10 and Zeus 100. How would your state of consciousness change if you could steal the consciousness of other people, and add it to yours? It wouldn't necessarily increase Illumination or alertness. It just increases the magnitude of consciousness. It could perhaps be described as: More consciousness More amount and magnitude and power and complexity of consciousness Expanded mind Getting an upgrade of your brain, mind and consciousness But most of these descriptions are usually used in different contexts, so it can be confusing using these words. Psychedelics can increase your magnitude. I think 5meo particularly strongly. I guess people who have experience with 5meo probably know what the magnitude dimension is about and what the difference between it and the Illumination dimension is. Advanced invocations can also give you a feel for it. Because by energetically merging with entities who have a higher magnitude dimension, your magnitude temporarily increases too. (With MUCH practice, your baseline magnitude can increase that way too. But this dimension is the hardest to increase your baseline in (apart from the alertness dimension)).

Relative to human consciousness, differences exist. Relative to high non-dual consciousness, differences don't exist. Relative to a high state of consciousness, there is also no difference between these two scenarios. Yes, it's all consciousness, it's all the same. Differences only exist once you add them with your mind. And then differences are true and real relative to that state. But they are not Absolutely true, because when you remove that mental activity and increase your state of consciousness, then there will no longer be a difference.

These contemplations here are based on the paradigm of multiple bubbles existing simultaneously. I mentioned some possible arguments for that paradigm in this Thread. To summarize the main points: If one consciousness bubble can miraculously exist then it could also be possible that many other consciousness bubbles exist too If there are seperate bubbles, then it could be possible that seperate bubbles can merge into one bubble. And if it is possible that there is a mechanism that allows seperate bubbles to merge into one, then it should also be possible that this mechanism can work in reverse and bubbles can split. If bubbles can split, then that would prove the possibility of multiple bubbles You are Infinite. But not Absolutely Infinite. Because if you were Absolutely Infinite you would contain Infinitely many Infinity Gods. But you are only conscious of one Infinity God. So that's what you are. All these Infinity Gods make up Absolute Infinity. There is no objectively real seperation between Infinity Gods because what they are is consciousness, that means the seperatation is made of unconsciousness and therefore in a sense doesn't exist. But relative to your own Infinitude this seperation is real. But relative to Absolute Infinity this seperation is not real. In that sense it is One. Now about the topic of this post. Let's say there are ten bubbles and each bubble is in formless consciousness. And then all ten bubbles merge. Then it's in a sense a larger bubble of pure formlessness, and it's all you. So up to this point I was thinking that for example with Brahman consciousness, what is happening is that your consciousness shapeshifts into Brahman Consciousness. But what if what is actually happening is that your bubble merges with a giant other bubble and this is the experience of Brahman consciousness. And then when you get back to human consciousness, you are again splitting off from that Brahman bubble, in a very seamless way. And here a big contemplative breakthrough for me: There are some aspects of the bubble paradigm that are a bit confusing for me. How is it possible that bubbles exist seperatly and disconnected from another. How can they be separated. If they truly are seperated then it should be possible that they can be 100% sovereign and independent of ohter bubbles. But based on my intuition I don't think that's the case Bubbles can't directly interact with each other. There is no direct actual cause and effect between bubbles. There is only apparent cause and effect if bubbles decide to imagine according to what is happening in other bubbles. Therefore this simultaneous bubble paradigm can feel alienating. BUT I just had an idea. I was writing about how you might actually merge with a Brahman bubble when you are in Brahman consciousness. WHAT IF whenever you interact with ANYTHING, you are also merging with that on some level. Not the same merger as with Brahman consciousness, but still a kind of merger. Merger in the sense that these appearances are not just a product of your subjective imagination, but that they are ACTUALLY and OBJECTIVELY co-created with other bubbles together. (It is not a full conscious merger as with the example of Brahman merger because then the content of other bubbles would be in your bubble) And this is happening with all bubbles that you are around. So right now your experience is not your personal imagination but an actual objective co-creation of many bubbles (other people, chair, air, atoms,...). This would mean that your experience is no longer purely subjective. This would again be some kind of objective reality. Your consciousness is a part of that objective reality. And when you merge with for example Brahman Consciousness, then you are actually merging with another consciousness that is part of this objective consciousness reality. Comparing the 3 non-solipsistic paradigms: - Material paradigm: Objective reality independent of consciousness Cause and effect are real You are not sovereign Direct interaction is possible You are disconnected from reality. What you see and hear.... are just hallucinations in a brain and not direct raw reality Reality is made of atoms - Bubble paradigm: Subjective reality dependent on consciousness Cause and effect within one bubble as well as between bubbles is illusionary. There can be the illuson of cause and effecr if consciousness decides to imagine according to how it would be if cause and effect were real Direct interaction is not possible You are fully connected with what is (your bubble), you are what is Reality is made of consciousness Infinitely many bubbles exist simultaneously, but disconnected from each other. Each bubble kind of floats in 'space' or maybe in non-existence (non-existence doesn't exist, so only the bubbles exist, but they are still seperated and disconnected) Each bubble can be 100% sovereign if it decides so. That means other bubbles can't affect it What you experience is subjective imagination There is seperation in the sense that bubbles are seperate - World made of Consciousness paradigm 'Objective' reality dependent on consciousness. It's not absolutely objective because if for example all consciousnesses in one univereses turn formless, then that universes with its forms doesn't exist anymore. But it's also not purely subjective because reality is a co-creation between different consciousnesses. So relative to a group of such consciousneses it is objective. Cause and effect is real Direct interaction is possible Reality is made of consciousness The existence of seperate bubbles doesn't really exist anymore. Reality is kind of similar to the objective material reality, but rather than atoms it is made of consciousness. And reality is a product of what all these consciousness create together. Purely subjective realities independent of other consciousnesses don't exist. Consciousnesses are not sovereign. That means other consciousness can have an impact on another consciousness, whether that consciousness wants that or not You are what reality is made of. So you are directly connected with what is happening. (Unlike with the material paradigm) What you experience is collective imagination. There is no real seperation. Consciousnessnes are One, they are not disconnected Just some contemplations...

Imaginary?

Another benefit of sleep yoga: Sleep yoga is the most powerful technique to increase your Void Dimension. High void dimension allows for vivid contact with spiritual entities. Sleep yoga mastery entails: Able to have very vivid interactions with spiritual entities during OBEs Able to somewhat increase your void dimension at any time and thus achieve more vivid invocations during meditation During non-OBE conscious sleep, while still in the physical body, you can do invocations. In that state of consciousness they can be very vivid and effective. sleep yoga plus invocations essentially allows for extremely powerful growth.

The levels of enlightenment that people have reached are vastly different. And here I'm just talking about baseline consciousness. Just a quick assessment on the fly based on my intuition and speculation: The difference (baseline consciousness) between the average person and Mooji is smaller than the difference between Mooji and Sadhguru And that difference is again smaller than the difference between Sadhguru and Ramana Maharshi And that difference is again smaller than the difference between Ramana Maharshi and Buddha And that difference is again smaller than the difference between Buddha and Babaji (here I'm the least sure. Maybe Buddha had Babaji's level too) Most full time monks probably haven't reached the level of Mooji, so how is the average person supposed to reach advanced levels of enlightenment through normal meditation?

I think 99% of people wouldn't reach the level of Ramana Maharshi if they did normal meditation for 100 000 hours. So why is that? Of course there is complexity to it, like past lives, luck, karma, doing the technique the right way... But saying it's genetics kind of encapsulates the main reason in a simple way.

@UnbornTao spontaneous awakenings usually happen only to people who are extremely spiritually talented. He was as talented as maybe 1 in a billion. For most people it is pretty much genetically impossible to achieve advanced levels of enlightenment through meditation alone.

More thoughts on whether "there are no differences between anything". I generally agree with that (relative to high states of consciousness). But I think that applies only for a difference between two 'things', between A and B. I don't think that there is no difference between existence and non-existence. That is a real difference. Or to put it differently, it is neither a difference nor no difference because a comparison is not possible because non-existence doesn't exist. So rather than asking "what is the difference between A and B" this is like asking "what is the difference between A". And yeah in some regard it is true to answer "there is no difference". Because there is no difference "between A". A is A.

Relative to a high state of consciousness, there are no differences between anyhing. For example there is no difference between physical (A) and non-physical (B) . Relative to a high state of consciousness, they are one. People say that seperate consciousnesses contradict Oneness. Well, if the difference between one consciousness bubble and another consciousness bubble as well as the difference between oneness and duality is imaginary (and doesn't exist), then Oneness still applies. In that regard Oneness and nonduality would include seperateness and duality.

@The0Self whatever it is you are describing, it would have to be something within consciousness, or something at one with consciousness. Otherwise how would you know about it and that it exists? @amanen Yes, I'm assuming there are multiple bubbles. And you are assuming there aren't multiple bubbles. You are assuming: That it is possible for all of Absolute Infinity to merge into one consciousness. I think that is not possible because then Absolute Infinity wouldn't be truly Absolutely Infinite. That what you become conscious of is Absolutely true

I think the most powerful ways are through advanced invocations: And sleep yoga mastery. Why sleep yoga impacts psychic powers is explained here: But both are kind of hard core techniques. A less hardcore but still relatively effective way would be doing a lot of transmissions: Basic occult practices can also be relatively effective. The next best would be kriya yoga and intense concentration and then meditation.

Summary: Illumination dimension: low vs high consciousness Void dimension: form vs formless consciousness Intensity dimension: subtle vs intense (awarenes of an awakening truth) Magnitude dimension: mouse vs human consciousness Alertness dimension: unconscious vs alert

Comparison between Transmissions There are 3 main transmissions: Light Transmissions (including RASA): They only target the Illumination Dimension. SAT Transmission: SAT Mainly targets the Void Dimension. Shaktipat: The main effects of shaktipat are love, bliss, kundalini awakening, purification of your whole system and energetic releases. Shaktipat transmissions can increase the void and intensity dimension to some extend. And a kundalini awakening can temporarily increase the illumination, void and intensity dimension. And in rare cases these increases can be permanent. The different Dimensions of Consciousness are explained here: