StarStruck

@Thestarguitarist14 I got a vague idea that I had fears of being abandoned because of my past but nobody acknowledged it so you acknowledging was great. Perhaps I should also do 1-3 day full meditation challenge to shut my ego down. My brain is in hyper active mode and I'm not solving anything or getting anything done. Yesterday I asked a girl (from a local store) out that I'm flirting with for months now, something I wouldn't do because I'm afraid, and she told me she had a bf. That created another emotional breakdown. This is not healthy. I don't know if I should put it on pause. I'm willing to take massive action/risks but at the same time I'm thinking and acting very toxic. I should bet on self love, self acceptance, self approval and self trust but everyday since friday has been a very unproductive day. I was trying to deny it to myself but I'm totally obsessed with her if I like it or not. Logically I don't want to but emotions don't listen to that. As @Tsuki said I need to go of the non-fiction image/projection I created of her. Currently in a torrent various emotions and I can't think straight.

@tsuki I won't deny I'm fucked up. I'm sick of seeing other people who are mean getting girls and I'm acting out. I wasn't like this before the date. To me it feels not acting out means being stuck where I 'm. Acting out means doing stupid shit but eventually learning from it and transcend. It is not healthy to deny the shadow sides. I know the answer isn't fucking her or making her my gf. I have to seek the answers inside but I'm not smart enough or conscious enough to do that right now. I have to be honest to myself.

We have similar life situations. My youth was just one emotional black hole. Parents were like you mentioned and my grand parents were somewhat emotionally available but they constantly abandoned me. And you are right about me pushing away girls. I have been doing that for a very long time. I'm not stupid and I saw the mechanism at work but I didn't / don't know how to fix it. Yesterday I was in the gym with my buddy. He talked to her female friend. He told me to come and emotions took over and I started acting like weird and afraid. Women pick up on that so fast. They are fine tuned to it.

It doesn't sound cryptic at all. I was thinking the exact same thoughts: girls want something completely different than I thought. I always thought girls liked well spoken and educated guys. I was mistaken. This girl's ex is bipolar, aggressive, weird, egoistic and unlovable in many other ways. How come she loves her and not me? That is driving me crazy. It is not even really about her. I started looking around and I saw girls pick their partners on a completely different criteria than I thought. The rug is pulled under me. Do girls just like confident and needy guys? Can you really boil it to that? Did I tell her about this thread on this forum? That night I told her that it was a mistake that I told her my secrets and showed my sensitive side. Previously she told me it was ok to be vulnerable; it wasn't ok because all those brutal truths turned her off. I told her if I was a bad boy she would have fucked me but because I'm a good guy she won't. She argued against it and eventually saw the truth herself. The day after she texted me to apologize and said she wants to see me again some time. I don't see her as long term material. I saw her as a stepping stone to jump start my dating life. I'm afraid she will just give me pity sex. I'm just going to work on the material that was advices in this topic and see her again, if she wants to see me again. I won't be seeing her again until I'm confident. I will be the bad boy she wants. I really don't know how to acknowledge that what I seek in her. I think I want love, understanding and attention, and especially somebody who I can talk to and who can support me.

When you said "you don't know what you are getting yourself into" what did you mean by saying that? Last couple of days have been an emotional upheaval. I can't be the same person any more. I have been acting very assertive in my life since last friday but I feel I'm going towards the cliff. Because of the last 10 years in emotional isolation I seek the opposite. I depend on a fitness bud and family right now and I'm not happy within my body. There are massive pulls on my body by emotions. Could somebody rephrase the second sentence so I'm sure I understand it. I agree with this. I thought I didn't need relationships for the last 10 years and look where it got me. This morning I was very emotionally unstable and I had to call somebody so they could help me. Somebody who had healthy early-life relationships and especially good emotionally available parents can be independent and not depend on relationships to be happy. Unfortunately I'm not part of that group. I think those people with good early-life relationships don't need emotional satisfaction to be happy so they get it paradoxically.

She is ok to meet up again. I will have to make a choice if I want to be her friend and hide my dick, or that I will let her make a choice; we are either fuckin' or she is out. That night I escalated majorly. Pulled her towards me. Push myself against her. And she told me off. I couldn't even kiss her because she held her chin down every time I tried. At one point she said "come and fuck me" after I said "fuck you" and I rolled my eyes. That was the only chance and I let it roll because I was tired of fit. All of her exes were abusers and she constantly communicated that to me. I think subconsciously signalling that I should be like one of those guys if I want to make a chance. Next time, if we need, I'm just going pull her hair and let her make a choice. I talked about this topic with a friend and he said the same thing: I need to develop self confidence I need to develop self-love; I love her more than myself while she is a low quality woman who subconsciously only attracted to abusers Stop being needy: learn how to seduce I know how to achieve one and two. A lot of resources were given to me in this topic and I made notes. I don't know how to stop being needy; I guess I need other people (like friends) who give me emotional attention so I don't look for it in dates. I read that book years ago. I think I need to reread it again I guess. You are right about not listening to every advice that is given. I don't by the way but I do seem desperate. That is another product of low self esteem I guess. I hope that everything will fall in place if I have my self-esteem figured out. I felt like micro-managing during the date and I still made blunders like giving advice how to deal with her bad boy hookups. WTF was I thinking.

This video is about my life. Only difference is that I don't complain a lot and I have a life purpose. @Thestarguitarist14 I will check that out. Thanks a lot.

My intention was to casually date for some time, get some experience and then look for a long term partner. I get what you are saying about the age thing but it is not like I have options. I just took the options that was presented to me which was a highly educated woman but with low moral standards and with psychological issues. Methods to find a woman On tinder I'm not a success. People don't like my vibe or my pictures although women told me they were surprised I wasn't succesful on tinder. They knew much worse looking guys who were very successful on tinder. So Tinder is not an option to date for me. It is not a good platform anyway. I don't have a social circle so dating through my social circle is not possible. I only know some friends through the gym. Going out is not possible either; corona Day game seems only option I do flirt with some girls in stores and they seem positive but I never made an advance. I will definitely try. I need to take action otherwise my mental health is going to nose dive. I have been thinking a lot but not a lot of action. I stopped porn when me and this girl were texting. Previously before knowing her, I could simply not stop my porn addiction. Therefore I don't really see this date a failed date. She kind of gave me the motivation to stop porn. Now I feel the urge to take action but mentally I don't feel very stable. I will go to therapy very soon because I'm not getting any younger. I always thought these problems would fix itself.

Appreciate it. Personally I look behind the intentions of what is being said. Leo meant it well. When I read back what I wrote, I thought the same thing; I did acted as a gay and not as a man. That is what I was thinking too. Soon I will be 32 and before I know it I will miss the boat. I don't want to date a woman that has children or 30+ years old and a lot on her belt. I'm at an age where I can get 25 year olds and not seem weird. Also I feel like I have lot of emotional baggage. I know there are books, therpary, guided meditations and shamatic tapping but it will take years and years to recover and be a normal person. I'm afraid I will be 50 and suicidal by that time, like you said. I had heavy abuse in my childhood. Especially my toxic mother fucked up my relationship with women I think. I didn't have a lot friends growing up and still don't have it. Perhaps it is too much to recover from that. I don't know anybody who recovered from such a traumatic childhood. Perhaps I shouldn't be casually dating and just have serious dates. Not that I have options really: girls aren't lining up for me.

I know but some part of me still wants to seek the answers out of myself. I will look into those books and methods. I found Leo's advice helpful. I know he has good intentions and his own way of teaching. I wasn't offended for a second. Why do you say "oh damn" is my situation that bad? I took therapy couple of times and they weren't that helpful. Perhaps I wasn't very open at that time. I will try again. It is just a huge financial drain but if I have no choice I have no choice.

@josh jones I'm 31 and I'm not a virgin. I just never had a real gf. I will stop using incel vocabulary from now on although it is going to be difficult. True. I don't have such a support group. I can share stuff with my family but not all. They just know how to deal with it. As for friends: I don't have close friends. I don't know how to make friends. I know how stupid that sounds. It is just my confidence that is the problem. She said I look much better than a lot of guys she dated and those guys are slaying she told me. She dated total losers too. Why? They were jerks and bullies but fun and treated her like crap. I was focusing on the wrong things. It is all about confidence. That is the thing I'm lacking. Confidence in guys is really important for girls. I knew this in theory but now I saw it in practice.

I know. I don't take on the identity. I just find it very difficult to express myself and explain my situation without using such power words.

It has been three days since the date and this is what I'm thinking about it. My external negativity and how I behaved during the date was a reflection of my inner world. Instead of being happy with my first date, and see the positives of having my first date, I only saw the negatives I have already summed up the negative sides of this date: she rejecting me hurt my ego. And especially her saying I was the first guy she didn't sleep with while going home was a punch in my balls Positives of this date: I finally got my first date behind my back. I got a reference experience. I find it easier to talk to other women now. Some additional info I held back in this topic I have a porn addiction and erectile dysfunction. Some part of me didn't want to have sex that night because I'm not fully recovered and there was a big chance I couldn't perform. My dick felt dead that day. Nofap community said that I should tell her about my erectile dysfunction. I didn't. I only told her about my porn addiction. I expected she would understand it because she is a sexually liberated girl but when I look back she wasn't OK with it. She referred back to it multiple times and was shocked a guy like me would have problems like that This woman is highly sexy. I don't want to reveal too much info about her but when you see her she is a sex machine. This girl has all the options and is attracted to bad boys. I tried to look from her perspective and I understand her completely: she wants a guy who is confident and I'm not. I'm highly traumatized, self doubting, and insecure. If I would date her again I don't even know how to act. She says she wants a guy who treats her like a princes. I did. I made her dinner and stuff and she said she never had a treatment like that but when I listen to her stories about her exes she is attracted to bullies and guys who treat her like crap Even right now she doesn't give me a lot of attention although she said wants to meet again but I just know for a fact that she keeps contact with guys who know how to be fun and know how to treat her like crap

I don't know how to solve it though. I read several books on it. It seems that going into relationships and letting things come up is the only way to deal with those traumatic/abusive cycles. Some people on this forum recommended I should focus on enlightenment before relationships. My lack of relationships is poisoning my quality of life, my life purpose and everything else. Sometimes I think I just have a low IQ but my problem lack of attention. I can't focus on work when I'm in an emotional roller-coaster. I can't do enlightenment when I'm starving for intimacy and emotional gratification. Am I wrong on this? Currently I'm reading a book on shadow work and watching some trauma release videos.

Thanks, I will try to do that. The thing is that she doesn't text me back as much as I text her. At this point I'm more depressed about my own life. I don't get why everybody in my surrounding has it easy making gf's and making a social circle and not me. For a long time I just thought I had bad luck or that it was my surrounding. Recently I discovered it is just my mindset that causes my incel-hood. I know I have to let that identity go. Obviously my parents that a huge impact on my mindset and how I see the world. I thought I had forgiven them but all of my social fuck ups lead to them; I'm angry at them and they are at fault but that doesn't solve any of my problems. I'm ashamed to admit it but that date night I broke down (cannabis triggered it I think), I literally saw her as my mother and painfully she rejected me. I get why she didn't want to have sex with me. She thought I was a tough guy and she got a cry baby at the end.

I'm trying to be open and be myself but everything I'm being myself I fuck up like I wrote in the OP. Me being open and honest means no sex/no gf. I will focus on shadow work and see what happens. There are so many moving parts that I don't know where to focus on. For example: should I text her to ask which part of the conversation that night she was serious and which part she was just holding me on a string? I want to know if she really wants me as a long term FWB/gf. I wanted to send this question out of honest/openness. I thought about this question for a minute and I discovered that if I do that I will continue to set the boyfriend frame, instead of the fuckboy frame (lightness and fun). This is what I mean. Being honest and open doesn't work for me. I wish I could. Meeting girls in a public space is impossible other than day game and gym. My creepiness/neediness is because I don't have a lot of options. Doing massive amount of day game in my own city is creepy but I will have no option.

Fuck that mystical shit that I said. I was high as a kite when I wrote that. And me being high fucked everything up in the first place. I held everything together until I decided to smoke a spliff. I will do what you said though. Yesterday she apologized for being emotionally closed off (although she wasn't) and that she forgot to text me when she arrived back home. Currently I'm stressed but not really stressed she didn't give me sex. She opened up a can of worms by dating me as an incel. Emotionally I feel attached to her because she pulled me out of my incel-hood. She is in no way long term gf material. I'm just emotionally fucked right now because this date put me out of complacency/apathy. I even had thoughts of suicide which is ridiculous, especially because she is no long term gf material.

Thanks for the advice. Does she have a program or just videos? I would like to know which videos to search for. Yesterday, the day after, she contacted me and apologized for not opening herself up. She said she would like to see me again. After that we didn't text that much. I'm afraid she will just give me pitty sex. Thank you for your advice, guys. I took notes and I will implement them this week.

@Martin123 Thanks for the resources and quiz. I have been thinking about this topic for the last two days. I decided to make notes of this topic and stop thinking about it otherwise I'm going to go insane over a loose woman. To summarize my feelings towards her: I would never settle down for her. She admitted she had sex with every guy she went home with. This was the thing that hit my ego so hard. For me she was my real first date. For her she was the first guy she didn't have sex with after going home with him. For the coming time, I'm just going to do some approaches and do shit ton meditation. Are you serious about it or is it a joke? I forced myself on her and she rejected me. I didn't want to continue forcing myself when she gave clear instructions not to do so. I forced myself on her in the kitchen when she was washing my dishes And I pulled her towards me couple of times but she didn't want to come on the sofa At one point when I said: "Fuck you" after the teased me. She said "fuck me then". Then I just rolled my eyes. Perhaps that was the only window of opportunity and I missed it.

@Parththakkar12 I resonate with that. How are you going to feed your emotional starvation? In my opinion it is a bottomless hole. Perhaps trauma release but that obviously didn't work out for me.

You recommended shadow work previously. I have been busy with that and just started listening to my shadow parts more. That kind of screwed me up I think. It was also definitely the weed I think. At the moment I'm looking down so much on my social life. I didn't know how to connect with people and last night date was just like a punch in my face. Obviously the problem for my incel life, isn't, aren't girl(s), or other people, the problem is in me. It kind of drives me crazy. Everything seems so easy for others. For me everything is difficult and the reason for that is that I'm making it difficult.

It was directed to me and I didn't find it offensive. It was what I needed to hear.

I didn't find it offensive that Leo called me gay. I felt extremely vulnerable because of the cannabis and I acted like a weak man. All my pain bodies were activated. I don't what I was thinking but this is so typical me fucking up a clear shot. I'm really trying hard to not beat myself up about it. This girl was such a stunner but she admittedly has psychological issues and only is attracted to bad boys. She ain't going to fuck a weak ass man.

@wavydude @Proserpina You were right. This morning I got a message with her saying it was a nice date and that we didn't match on points, but she could be open to meet again (perhaps). So it is very likely she doesn't want to meet again. Anyway, in this topic I got some real good advice. I appreciate it a lot. I couldn't sleep a lot last night and this topic gave me perspective. I just need to accept what happened and learn the lessons: Just focus on fun & games during the first dozen times Just fit in; don't bring up trauma's or any other kind of negativity Empathy for myself; meet myself at where I'm. Not be creepy or a weirdo Only way to be that is just to expose myself to social situations more. Extra info: I know how stupid this is going to sound. This is something I didn't mention in my OP. I smoked weed last night and that kind of made my creepy/weird. When I read what I wrote last night and think about how I acted, I'm kind of ashamed.

@DreamScape I appreciate the experience. For the record: I didn't intend to share personal sensitive topics; it just happened; she teased it out (I know it sounds weird) This girl is a smart girl. She wants to become a surgeon. She had a lot of boyfriends so I don't really have intension of wifing her up. This whole interaction just made me doubt myself. I can't really be myself because being myself means fucking up. Just having fun and games for the first dozen dates; it is easily said, as an incel it is not easily carried out. I don't know how to do just fun and games.