Raptorsin7

I have a strong sense that the thread was very valuable for many people. At the very least it was incredibly valuable for me

I think this has been very productive. I'd argue this has been one of the most productive, and valuable threads ever on the forum

That's fair I think I understand that. I think it's possible for teachers to be universally received. But this might be too high a bar, because I'm not sure I know anyone who could be universally received. But idk. I don't know if you live in harmony and happiness or you just believe you do, but I think if you do live in happiness then that is the guiding light for teaching. Grace from teacher to student is the most important factor i think in progress

The problem with retribution is it's not necessary if we can all do our jobs. Ideally this entire thread can shine a light so bright that the toxic elements of teaches like Nahm's will be exposed and it can correct and so we don't have the same harms occur over and over. You can't teach someone how to be smart with punishment. The only solution is for them to see how their actions were harmful, and too experience what it means to give harmonious guidance

@Kksd74628 Wouldn't it concern you as a teacher that you are interacting with someone and they don't feel in harmony when interacting with you.

I think the issue is there are many people who try to help, but they have a shadow that causes harm to others. So it's like there are competing parts, and you can get stung by one part while another part is smiling and trying to help

Mods are like parents, no one appreciates them until they are gone lol. I think we are like that on this forum. There's a collective energy we all get sucked into a bit, it's like inevitable. If I was a mod I would have grudge banned so many people.

I think your intention is pure and noble, but your energy isn't. Like your energy sais one thing, but your mind says another. I will try and give you a critique because if your life purpose is helping others then maybe it can be helpful. Short answer. Find someone who lives in harmony and just talk with them and absorb their presence. The harmony is constant across people and it will shine through in your posts. I think you can improve the energy behind the posts. It's like how you called out my hatred and rage, like it was so clear you to energetically, I think I see that in your energy in that it's not harmonious. I just created a guru-disciple relationship so I am guilty of what I accused you of

Yeah I have hated some of these mods too. I have a feeling since Leo's big awakening things will actually be different on here. Think about this thread, has there ever been a thread like this

I was wrong in attacking Nahm like I did, it was unnecessary. I could have accomplished the same goal of bring everything to light and expressing what I think of him, but I don't think my recent posts have been as combative. It's possible Nahm wouldn't do that, but that's how I felt in the past when this topic was approached. What is your biggest issue with what i'm saying?

It's hard for me to view this entire exchange as bad because I feel like this entire thread has become more balanced and harmonious than most actualized.org threads. And it's because things were expressed in such a raw, unfiltered, approach etc. Do you see you have created a perspective where you are an authority over me. I don't know how to say this without provoking you but i'll try. I think by you offering and trying to help, you are actually being toxic and this is kind of like what I am accusing Nahm of. It's like on the surface you seem like a good guy trying to help, but I sense shadow motivations and I think our relationship if I accepted you as an authority would be harmful

If you are a spiritual teacher and you see this and it disrupts your harmony and peace then that is a sign of your unenlightenment and need to progress. So maybe Nahm will get triggered and upset and will have to purge, but if he is authentic then this will not disrupt his harmony. If he tries to shout me down, deflect, blame, project etc then its a sign of unconsciousness and it would harm him even more

I think it's about both, but this thread is about me because I could have approached it better. I came in with anger and fury because I felt so hurt by what happened and I bottled it up for years. But I could have resolved it in a more harmonious way, without turning to hatred. I think it was good to say it in public, I think all conversations are in some sense public because we are only ever hurting ourselves by lying or trying to cover things up.

@Inliytened1 Thank you. I'll try and do better Empathy is not in limited supply. But I understand why you argued with me to get me out of a hateful perspective. I don't know if it's the right thing to do to stop Nahm from teaching, but it might be true. Maybe if we can find a way to stop Nahm from teaching people like I was when I first came to the forum that would be good I expressed the energy I was feeling. It just kind of happen, I didn't plan it. But I think this was good, and I helped people see the truth. “Run from what's comfortable. Forget safety. Live where you fear to live. Destroy your reputation. Be notorious. I have tried prudent planning long enough. From now on I'll be mad.” ― Rumi I think true teachers are beyond petty concerns about self image. If Nahm is as real as you think, then he would be happy to see what is happening

@Inliytened1 Thank you. I'll try and do better @Breakingthewall Thank you, I appreciate the support. I was wrong in not having more compassion for Nahm though, I think he is harmful, but I could have handled this better

I'd say the most clear example is @Gregory1 telling me to shut up and stop expressing my view that Nahm is a charlatan. But look at the comments of people wanting the thread closed, people telling me that Nahm doesn't charge. I don't have a huge issue with the gaslighting personally, I was bringing attention to it because I saw it as further proof that people here are emotionally bonded in a toxic way to Nahm. Like the idea of being harshly critical of him would trigger them to attack me. I understand that. I have harmed people and gaslit them on this forum too so I get it, I was very upset with Nahm because I emotionally invested a lot of hope into the relationship. I see how that was a mistake because I wouldn't behave the same way with teachers now, but I felt like I had to say something and I have bottled this up for years. No I haven't, but It won't be necessary now. I take back demanding a refund. It's more that I really resent that Nahm played the role of a scammer. It's like I can't believe he was the kind of person who would engage financially with me like that. We will see. I don't know how i'm going to approach this, but I'm going to stop attacking him and try to do my best to approach this in a harmonious way

I think shining light to the community about his conduct is important. If I talked to Nahm personally and it doesn't get resolved and I don't speak about it, then how will anything change in his conduct or how people approach his advice? Do you believe anyone is a charlatan? Would we say the same about tv preachers, if someone were to expose the untruth of what they say? I want to see Nahm stop teaching before he has a real teaching and understanding, but I see how I can't force that.

I can trace my progress to different teachings and teachers. True teachers will have an energy and grace to them, and it will flow to you. Nahm is not pure evil, so i'm sure he did some good things, but I think the fact that I ended up suicidal after having spent so much time with him is evidence of something disharmonious about his approach. Maybe he is good for somethings and some people, but genuine spiritual understand and living in harmony I don't think he is credible. But he acts and presents himself like he is a true saint, that is my biggest gripe. I agree I shouldn't attack Nahm, but I don't think this discussion should be stopped. Nahm is not banned from the forum, Leo just said he has to change his approach, so he can come in and respond to the criticism. I think my fundamental point is that Nahm is doing harm to some people, and I want to show the community what happened and how this works.

I don't even want the money, I should probably stop emphasizing that I only used it show people that there was something not right about his approach. I want Nahm to admit wrongdoing and make some step to either stop teaching or find a real teacher and receive genuine guidance so he can help people, without doing harm.

I don't have a desire to speak to him 1-1, because I don't think it would solve anything. But maybe an open thread, where we can go over the harm and the flaw. But I don't know, my perspective has calmed and I can see how hatred and making Nahm an enemy is not harmonious, but at the same time I do believe a lot of this needed to be said. I think my posts will be better, so maybe this can get resolved more effortlessly now

Yeah I guess at some point I will have to. I feared being gaslit about my experience like I have in the past, so in public everything is exposed and you can't hide. It's not about the belief. It's about the harmony of the person and the teaching. The reason I can shift from hatred and anger to more calm and equanimity so quickly is because of quality guidance and grace from others, not from using the mind to attack and pick apart the mind.

@Kksd74628 I think we should speak about Nahm until we get closure and resolution. Burying the conversation is not going to help anyone.

Some people are approaching this conversation with the intent to shout me down because the thought of Nahm not being who they thought he was is so painful. It's painful for me to, but I have just enough awareness and energy to where it's not overwhelming and I can still speak sense. Like even now my body shakes a bit as I write this, but I believe what i'm saying is true so I express it. I think it's a real issue that this was never discussed before, and the constant gaslighting and shouting down is a big part of that. I had been passively aggressively critical of Nahm in my journal a few times, and i got dog piled by people telling me it was my fault, Nahm's a great guy, etc

Okay that is true. I thought you at least insinuated it but I don't think you did. I can have this conversation in a more harmonious way and I'll try to embody that

I don't understand Jesus's death so if the story is actually true then maybe you have a point, but I believe it possible to at least be wise enough to where if you spend 8 months working with someone they will be transformed @Tim R Okay I will turn down the personal attacks and hatred. But I think the definition of charlatan stands, and if you ask me my opinion I believe Nahm is a charlatan. But I will stop using it unnecessarily in the conversation