Petals

thanks. short and concise statements are great because they can often create a depth that continuous text can't. I recommend 'The Nisargadatta Gita' by Pradeep Apte. it's available as a free download.

@Shaun 'Thinking and Destiny' by Harold Percival. interesting and weird book that I am reading at the moment. if you think about it, why would one assume that there is something like 'accident' or 'luck' or 'fate'? wouldn't it actually be plausible that there is an impartial law / laws governing everything just as the universe is governed by 'physical' laws? Percival contends that all events are the exteriorizations of thoughts by which the thoughts get 'balanced' if you learn from the events. overall, the aim is to free oneself from the grip of the body-mind, the senses and desire.

the fundamental question is, can he beat Trump? imagine him in a debate with Trump. given what I've seen of Buttigieg (I could be wrong) I get the sense that it is not going to end well.

@erik8lrl thanks. @Derek White knowing how is not the beginning but the end?

@mandyjw yes, thank you for reminding me of this. the transitoriness itself is not suffering, but resisting it and wanting permanence is. resistance is suffering. and above all the resistance to the shining forth of the Self. @Preetom that's kind. I'm trying my best.?

Ramana Maharshi as you probably all know always pointed out that happiness is your true nature. since 'you' are truly happy in deep sleep in which the world is not present, happiness must be intrinsic to what you are and can never come from the world. @mandyjw suffering is not a condition, rather, all conditions are suffering simply because they are conditioned and transitory. that's what @Preetom tried to say I guess.

Jeanne de Salzmann's 'The Reality of Being'. inspiring and intimate (it's from her notebooks).

@Forrest Adkins what does Ra mean by that?

I think that would get boring in the end because child's play is play in which there is no consequence. I would say that deep down one wants one's actions to have consequences and to take responsibility for them. that's where happiness or at least meaning is. and to the degree that we reject that responsibility we are not an adult and are not fulfilled (and 'fulfillment' is deeper than any 'happiness').

@Preetom thank you. a good post. made me want to find a certain quote again that I once read. this is the quote: "In our situation we only need an explanation of the realm of this world, which is the place of responsibility, trial, and works." "Know that since God created human beings and brought them out of nothingness into existence, they have not stopped being travelers. They have no resting place from their journey except in the Garden or the Fire, and each Garden and Fire is in accordance with the measure of its people. Every rational person must know that the journey is based upon toil and the hardships of life, on afflictions and tests and the acceptance of dangers and very great terrors. It is not possible for the traveler to find in this journey unimpaired comfort, security, or bliss. For waters are variously flavored and weather changes, and the character of the people at every place where one stops differs from the character at the next. The traveler needs to learn what is useful from each situation. He is the companion of the each one for night or an hour, and then departs. How could these be reasonably expected by someone in this condition?” "We have not mentioned this to answer the people fond of comfort in this world, who strive for it and are devoted to the collection of worldly rubble. We do not occupy ourselves with or turn our attention to those engaged in this petty and contemptible activity. But we mention it as counsel to whoever wishes to hasten the bliss of contemplation in other than its given realm, and to hasten the state of annihilation elsewhere than in its native place, and who desire absorption in the real by means of fana', obliteration from the worlds." "The masters among us are scornful of this ambition because it is a waste of time and a loss of true rank, and associates the realm with that which is unsuitable to it." -Ibn al Arabi

when I think about this and feel into it, it feels peculiar. like I am in an impossible thing (a 'miracle'). maybe you can reach the same intuition by contemplating it. it's the following: what does it mean for something to be 'self-existent'? don't necessarily try to get a verbal answer, but 'feel' into it. maybe try to apply it to the reality you find yourself in right now - could any of this exist without something being self-existent (to ground it)?

Ramana Maharshi

go to the website by Michael James 'happiness of being' and download 'The Path of Sri Ramana' by Sri Sadhu Om for free. then you will know what self-inquiry is all about. without it one will probably always wonder whether one is making progress or not. I would say this: I think you had the right direction, but in the context of the practice of self-enquiry, thoughts are still objects / 'third persons' (as it's called). but self-enquiry is all about the first person. attend to that first person ('I') without giving the slightest attention to 'second' ('you') and 'third persons' ('he, she, it'). find out what that first person is.

this is a great addition:

'wanting to live' is not the same as the 'will to live'. I 'want to live' but I do not have the 'will to live'. without the 'will to live' nothing can truly be done. ••• 'wanting to live' is there because there is 'not wanting to die'. but the 'will to live' includes the 'will (i.e. willingness) to die'. // he who 'wants to live' does not have life but wants it. but he who has the 'will to live' has life because he chooses life. // he who 'wants to live' is (/feels himself to be) at the mercy of death and therefore also at the mercy of life. but he who has the 'will to live' chooses life and therefore also chooses death (i.e. is ready to die whenever and however it may come). ••• having the 'will to live' you have everything. without it, you have really nothing (but fear). ••• if you have the 'will to live' you cannot 'lose'. you choose life and therefore also choose death instead of being a victim to both. ••• this 'will to live', this choice, is the foundation of life. without it, one is not truly alive. inspired by 'Finite and Infinite Games' by James P. Carse. I made that distinction between 'wanting to live' and 'will to live' up, but I didn't know how else to put the feeling that I had into words. I hope that some of you could see what I wanted to point to and benefit from it.? feel free to comment.

the point of the exercise is to see beliefs clearly as beliefs and to see direct knowledge clearly as direct knowledge. the point is to put each instance in its proper category and not about verifying your beliefs in direct exp. e.g. your parents being your biological parents. you see it clearly and you categorize it as 'belief'. exercise completed. like that with every single point. ps.: DNA test could be fake or flawed but I think seeing your sister working at the bank would be good evidence that she is working there.? at least you would clearly know that she worked there for the time of your visit.

@PlayOnWords thanks. I also thought that they might eventually converge somehow which would makes sense. now that I think about it, 'create' and 'uncreate' must always go together. from a certain perspective they are the same. @Consilience thanks. I agree with all your points. It just seems that in CwG, 'God' seems to encourage one to spend the energy in playing instead of trying to become conscious of one's true nature. One probably must have read the book to understand what I mean. It is a book that is in line with non-duality but this emphasis on 'creating yourself' seems to step out of that line. so I'm trying to understand whether there is sth important to that teaching. other than that, if I think about it, whatever is created or uncreated by me cannot be me because that comes and goes while I stay permanent throughout it.

I've looked into Conversations with God again after some time. There it is constantly said that it is all about creating 'Who You Are' and 'Who You Want To Be', about recreating yourself in every moment. Then on the other hand there is Peter Ralston (or Vedanta - Maharshi, Nisargadatta) who basically says that that is the very problem you are trying to become conscious of: that you are 'doing yourself' and creating yourself in every moment and that if you stopped doing that, you would know your real nature, which is to just 'be' - 'real being'. in CwG, God even acknowledges in one paragraph that if you did not create yourself and your definitions, that 'you would be nothing'. but God emphasizes that you are to create yourself (maybe precisely because otherwise you would be nothing). So, what am I to do? to create myself or to uncreate myself, to be something or to be nothing?

as they say - 'it is not an experience'. it's hard to comprehend for me, but this teaching comes up so often that you have to take it seriously. then this right now is somehow the essential experience (or non-experience). any new experience would just more of what you already have.

Carl Jung even went to India more or less for the purpose of meeting Ramana Maharshi. At the last minute he decided not to go ..... I think he was clear on his goal. He wanted psychoanalysis and not Self-realization.

@Dwarniel sorry, my fault

oh, ok. but just using common sense I feel like he couldn't have said that. a) he is a professional philosopher, so it's unlikely that he would say sth as un-nuanced as that. b) he is said to be a psychoanalyst, so he must have a good amount of interest in the psyche and the inner. but what do I know?? edit: well, seems like he really said it. maybe precisely because he is a psychoanalyst?

I've googled the account and turns out it is a parody account. so he did never really say that. but you probably knew that and I only pointed out the obvious.?

a man named Lee van Lear's blog on inner work http://zenyogagurdjieff.blogspot.com/?m=1

thanks for sharing!! the intro by Gregory is also great to listen to.