Parththakkar12

Actually yes. It's been a subconscious belief the whole time, and I'm not at the point in my healing process where I want to question it. I wish I could be more PC, but this is the reality. It's not demonization per se, rather it's a paralyzing fear of having a woman be responsible for my emotional well-being. This fear is backed by negative beliefs about women as a whole. By 'we' I mean myself!! I don't have a rational justification tbh, It felt more empowering to the part of me which has felt abused and emotionally neglected by women as a whole.

Here's the situation : Rape is a serious crime/violation which 'good people' aren't supposed to do. Also, before birth control, having sex meant that you had children, which is why it had to be regulated and casual sex was hard to come by. The huge stigma around sex was to make rape a bad thing and to make casual sex a bad thing. When that happens, the people who can repress sex the best are considered the best people morally, i.e. they'll be valued in society. In such a situation, the people who choose celibacy will be promoted in the religious ranks!

I guess we gonna stay MGTOW then till we find empathetic people who care about men! Being empathetic doesn't mean though that you pick sides and demonize 'greedy women'. It's one of those 'Change my mind' situations where I'm open to my mind getting changed. Only time will tell how that's gonna happen! Not having empathy and assuming separation is included in emotional abuse btw. That causes suffering as it denies the reality that we're all one on an emotional level.

I'm gonna assume whatever I want. I (or anyone) don't have to be politically correct in my beliefs! #ThePowerOfMGTOW I'm not saying I'm going MGTOW, nor am I justifying/advocating for anything an individual person/group of people does. Chances are they're seeking validation for the pain of the abuses they've been through.

I'd rather care about what people think and why, thanks!

Man did you really count these?!?! I mean seriously, I'd lose track after like 10 or something

I just found out that I've never really had the desire to have sex with any specific person. I've been attracted to a lot of women, but didn't want to actually sleep with them! The reason is lack of emotional connection. I've had the avoidant attachment style from the very beginning, which makes me feel unsafe in relationships, which is not a good thing in bed. That's why, I wasn't able to find compatibility with anyone. Do guys struggle with this or is this a woman thing? Feeling emotionally unsafe in bed is only something I've heard women describe, not men!! It's a huge surprise for me, given the number of PUAs who just say, 'Man up, man harder, man so hard that your biceps shouldn't fit in any shirt!!'. Do PUAs consider this or not, given that they're coming from an emotionally wounded space? Is banging a lot of girls supposed to be emotionally safe for a guy?

Even if you manage to do that, sleeping with emotionally incompatible women (which is most women. Very few of them will be compatible, it's just what the numbers say.) is just unsafe! I haven't seen anyone factor this in. Can someone tell me what's going on with this, i.e. why is everyone missing this?

I'm a guy and I had an imploding orgasm just a few days ago. The best orgasm ever!! Your level of energy will increase because of those. (as opposed to the exploding orgasm which is usual for men. The exploding one takes away your energy.) The lesser resistance you have to them, the more likely you are to attract someone who's also able to surrender to it. I don't do it everyday. It's more of a once a month thing for me cuz I don't really know when it'll happen! It's more of something you surrender to when it happens.

Also, don't let 'independent people' gaslight you into believing that independence and 'having your space' is healthy in the long run. The fundamental reason we want space is cuz we're afraid of losing our boundaries! The reason is fear-based, not natural. There's nothing wrong with you for being 'needy' or having emotional needs. Even desperation is technically okay. It doesn't make you weak! It will only repel avoidant people cuz they'll be scared of losing their boundaries with someone who's desperate, but you don't want to be with such a person anyways! You want to be with someone who accepts you for who you are. Demonization of 'neediness', 'desperation', etc. is a product of our independence-obsessed avoidant cultures.

@assx95 Dump her!! She's not worth your time. There's a lot of people out there who genuinely want a committed relationship. She doesn't want a committed relationship, as much as she may bullshit you that she does (To be a good person or whatever)! She is hurting you emotionally (unlike what @Preety_India is saying). We're not an independent species, we're a relationally dependent species. Avoidance, silent treatment is emotional abuse, which you're letting her do to you cuz you're not stating your boundaries. Now I'm not saying she's an evil person, but we treat our intimate partners the way our parents treated us when we were little (this may be something to understand about her). It's important for you to look into why you're attracted to unavailable people and work with that pattern. I'd suggest inner-child work. Also, being more assertive with your boundaries is critical.

Why is it considered so good to be selfless in a relationship? Why would you have a relationship if you don't need anything from your partner and are happier alone? If selflessness is so good, wouldn't that mean that anything goes in the relationship and you're fine with your boundaries getting violated? If you say 'I want to be selfless', that's your selfish desire!

Why is it considered so bad to be dependent on a partner to take care of you emotionally? Are the people glorifying independence avoidant of real, vulnerable relationships where you actually care for one another (and receive their care)? Humans are a social species and we depend on each other emotionally.

I'm sorry for the strawmans. I'm doing internal work on this dynamic as we speak. I'll tell you what I know about recovering from a vibration of powerlessness/victimization. Step 1 : Don't blame yourself. When you're in that state, you'll want to blame whatever catches your fancy. Self-blame is a lower frequency than blaming someone else. When you're in the space of powerlessness, someone telling you to take responsibility will feel like a gaslight, i.e. it will feel like they're blaming you for what's happened to you. If you buy what they're saying, you'll not end up taking responsibility for yourself, instead you'll end up self-blaming, which is self-abuse. Step 2 : Be present with your powerlessness. That the reality is that that's how you feel. Step 3 : Now you'll move into a space of revenge, which is a higher vibration than powerlessness. Here you'll have emotions like rage, fury, anger. All these are higher vibrational states than powerlessness. Process accordingly (May involve listening to metal, venting anger, etc)! Step 4 : Victim-mentality. Now you've settled into a space of blaming the person who has wronged you, and you're 'putting the blame where it belongs' (This is an important step for victims of sexual assault). Having people feel sorry for you/validate you can be healing (as long as you're not bringing them down too much). Step 5 : When you're done being in a dis-empowered space (which is what the victim-mentality is) then you wake up to the reality that you have been creating everything to begin with. Take responsibility for your life and move into a space of empowerment! All of this is based on my direct experience. It's verified by a lot of people who have healed from sexual trauma. (I wasn't sexually abused, but healing from other childhood traumas works similarly) What this tells me is that helping someone heal from 'victim-mentality' (if you want to call it a dysfunction) depends a lot on where they're at. Tuning into them emotionally is the only way of knowing where they're at! This is what I meant when I mentioned taking responsibility for them. I'm not expecting anyone to be able to do this in one go. It's a personal commitment to take responsible for other people's emotional health. But it's surely a useful discussion to have!

What is Leo's stance on vulnerability? Say you're vulnerable/open with someone you want to have as a partner, is that good or bad? Would it be considered 'victim behavior'? All inner children are victim selves (Even the converse is true). And, everyone has an inner child as part of being human (cuz childhood trauma is part of being human). When you shame people for being victims, you're just deepening their emotional wounding to begin with. I think it's an abusive thing to do in a relationship! What do yall think? Also, we're a social species and we need each other. There's a difference between taking responsibility for your life and denying your need for someone to take responsibility for your life (and trying to meet that need yourself). I want a relationship in which both of us are taking responsibility for each other's life and our lives are integrated with each other. Does wanting this come under 'victim mentality'? Always remember that emotional needs are more important to the human body than physical needs. That's why people become martyrs, stop eating and drinking after losing a loved one, commit suicide, etc. I'm seeing a lot people getting shamed here for showing their victim sides. Is expressing how you feel (however delusional it may be) considered weakness and being macho all the time considered strength here on this forum? I understand if you may not want to feel sorry for victims (it may make you feel weak or something), but that's exactly what they need! When you tell a victim you feel sorry for them, they begin to find their feet.

There's a difference between empathizing and enabling. Have you tried empathizing with the criminals of the world? Leo explains that better in the video in which he talks about the brutality of Love, impermanence, etc. This doesn't mean you enable crime! Holy shit do you hate victims!! Why do you hate them so much? Being a victim is not about a behavior, rather it's about feeling powerless and having faulty programming as to attributing your feelings of powerlessness to something external. You still get to decide what to do about it! I don't know what you mean when you say 'behavior'. I've had people be there for me and hold space for me when I was being a victim. Everyone needs that from time to time! Edit : Maybe you hate the emotion of powerlessness. That's understandable, it's the lowest frequency there is. Are you sure playing the victim isn't healthy for someone who lost their family in a Tsunami, in the moment when they're grieving their loss? Technically, they are playing a victim to this tragedy. Making generalized statements like this is kinda playing with fire.

There's a difference between physical health and emotional health. You can find dysfunctions in physical health which have the same strategy to resolve for almost everyone. That's not true for emotional dysfunctions, where specific situations have specific resolutions. You cannot paint 'victim mentality' with a broad brush and have a common cure for it! Emotional dysfunctions are a lot more situational. In some cases, you need to tell someone that they're being a victim and that they need to see that they are responsible for their life. In other situations, you may need to understand that their feelings are valid (even though thoughts may not be valid) and tell them that you understand what they're going through! I didn't say everything is subjective. But the definition of 'healthy' vs 'unhealthy' on an emotional level is subjective. When for one person, getting up at 5 am and running may be emotionally healthy, for someone else taking their rest may be more self-loving. As far as me getting personally attacked is concerned, that was me stating a boundary. Boundaries are different from person to person. Our ego self has boundaries which are healthy to uphold and respect! I don't know what you mean by this.

Why do you say so?

I understand that you're trying to help people. But is fixing them helpful, or hateful? You will never be able to accomplish that feat. As for the definition of 'healthy', that's subjective and varies from person to person. Try telling someone who's suffering through a tragedy that their victim mentality is unhealthy! I don't respond to personal attacks. You do that once more this discussion is over!

Wait, aren't you wanting to integrate the two? It's okay if you don't want to, I just assumed that you wanted to. We're all one on an emotional level, also known as the energetic level. This is where your emotions, desires, etc lie. This is what decides how you act in the 3D. What I mean by taking responsibility for them is, taking Responsibility (with capital R) for the Self (which includes them as a part of you) and acting from that space!

What I'm hearing is 'I'm responsible for myself, they're responsible for themselves so I'm not responsible for them, cuz they are separate from me!' I understand if you don't want to coddle/manipulate them. Are you sure you are taking responsibility for them here? It's when you said that the reactions like 'Just stop being a victim'/'Just be confident' are not invalidating where they're at. You can't just be confident when you're a victim! What you actually need is for people to see this and respect this. For example, say you're going through a break-up and someone callously says 'Just get over it, you'll be fine. Everything is one, so you didn't really lose that person! All you have to do is open your eyes to that.' how will you react? Why are you taking it upon you to fix them, as if there's something wrong with being a victim? It feels like an attack to me. It's like saying, 'You're having a heart attack? I'm not trained in this, but I'm gonna give you an adrinaline shot in the heart anyways!!' You don't know their situation enough for you to be able to fix it. Assumption that it's a sickness/unhealthy. It's a perfectly decent and healthy thing for a lot of unconscious people to stay in victim mentality and have an okay life. It won't be a passionate life/high contrast life, but if they're good with it, who are we to say it's unhealthy?

It seems to me that you are : 1. Taking the person who's 'playing the victim' as separate from yourself in this case (While expecting them to not do the same). Say I'm in a state of defence and you try to 'disengage the defence', that's gonna make me more defensive cuz I'll perceive you as an attacker! You would do that only if you're not putting yourself in my position. 2. Invalidating ground-level experiences like losing a loved one/suffering through a tragedy by using a transcendent spiritual perspective. By that I mean saying stuff like 'Being a victim is false, being fully responsible is true' when someone is suffering a tragedy. The fact that we're all one / Free will is an absolute is not true from an unconscious 3D perspective! I think this is called spiritual bypassing. There's potentially a lack of integration of the dualistic world there. 3. Demonizing someone for being in a state of defence. Why do you think they're trying to defend themselves from those around them? Because they're getting attacked! 4. Assuming that everyone rejects someone who's playing a 'victim role' (When that's you, you feel like you actually are a victim as opposed to playing a role). This is false. Does this ring true to you? Any objections?

@Nickyy Okay. I have questions about what you're saying. 1. Say you're stuck in victim mentality. What would you prefer, to blame yourself or to blame what you perceive yourself to be a victim of? 2. Say you're expressing feelings of powerlessness relative to something. Is that vulnerability or victim mentality? What would your first reaction be to someone doing that? 3. If someone's hostility is making you feel threatened, isn't that you being a victim to their victim mentality (and blaming them for it)? I understand that there is value in calling it out, provided that you aren't demonizing them for it. Also, once someone admits to being stuck in victim mentality, the response of everyone else is 'Just stop being a victim and all your problems will be solved!!' which is true in theory, but it can be invalidating. Imagine saying that to someone who just lost a loved one/is going through a break-up. I'm not saying that some good-old calling out is never appropriate. I do it when someone goes into excuse-giving mode, i.e. takes their victim mentality as a given. What I am asking for, is for people to not be hypocrites when doing the calling-out. That can turn into a blame-game very quickly and it's abusive when potentially you're trying to be vulnerable. Does this make sense?

Another thing I just realized about this : When people who feel disempowered and victimized don't trust the empowered people to take care of them, that's not a good sign! It leads to creation of an 'us vs them' mob mentality and echo-chamber type effects. Sound familiar? Yes I am referring to the incel community and why they turn a blind ear to constructive advice, and why they demonize who they perceive to be 'empowered people in the dating scene' so to speak. (Btw, parallels can be drawn in situations like poor people demonizing the rich, etc) We're a social species and we need to take care of each other. If people who feel disempowered feel like the mainstream society is trustworthy (within reasonable measure) on an emotional level, they'll be willing to be vulnerable about how they really feel instead of turning it into a weapon. Once that happens, whether they make progress or not (that's dependent on how empowered they feel), one thing is certain, that we won't see mass shootings on these lines anymore!

Hey everyone, I have a bit of a predicament when I think about the kind of relationship I want. I want a relationship where I'm freely able to express myself to my partner and we're committed to each other's well being. Now, people keep saying that 'You shouldn't be a victim, just be confident bro! Pull yourself up by the bootstraps, work hard, man harder, fix yourself enough and one day, you'll succeed in getting laid / finding a partner (whether the relationship works or not is another matter entirely!).' That's like a Spiral Dynamics Stage Orange way of looking at Dating. However, I do have inner child aspects of myself which feel like a victim and which need to be seen, accepted and nurtured in a primary relationship. That's one important aspect of having an authentic relationship. Also, if you adopt the attitude towards yourself of fixing yourself, that's kinda a self-hating approach, isn't it? People talk about self-love, especially in the context of attracting relationships. Now, I'm not saying that being a victim is particularly helpful, nor am I advocating such an approach. But, as a self-actualization community, why do we hate and bully victims more? Do we really think it'll help them? Is it an attitude you'd take towards yourself? Also, say you suppress the parts of you which feel like a victim as hard as you possibly can. You finally enter a relationship, and then these aspects of you start to show themselves. What then? I'm not just pointing to a problem here. I have a solution. Which is, to see complainers and victims as your children (externally and internally) and treat them as such. This requires a profound level of empowerment on our part as members of a self-actualization community.