Dylan Page

@Serotoninluv I’m saying that it’s fundamentally bad. From any possible perspective. Given of course, that the creator cares about the well being of its creations. Suffering is inherently bad, it’s defined by how bad it is. If you feel good when suffering, you aren’t suffering. That scenario isn’t bad in my head, or in my construct, it’s fundamentally bad with the assumption that the creator cares about its creations. If it finds joy in watching people suffer, then fine, it’s doing the right thing in its eyes, but if that’s the case, then I hate it.

@Moreira we do not need suffering to know love. Feel love, it can exist on its own, just like suffering.

@Serotoninluv I never said the killer was evil, I’m saying, why allow 2 beings with completely contradictory value systems exist within the same realm at all. I don’t care about my immersion in reality or my survival or perspective or ego or any of that shit, I’m talking about on a purely rational level. Put a and b into reality a likes to eat cake and b likes to watch people suffer as he smashes the cake in front of their face. Why allow them to live in the same plane of existence at all.

@Keyhole I’ve never really been sure what people mean by awakening. I’ve had many, many epiphanies over the course of my life, but I’ve never like, become god or whatever people talk about, I feel like the definition isn’t clear on what awakening is, and so tons of people run around claiming they had an awakening when in reality ones awakening is something totally different to someone else.

@Serotoninluv right, so why do I have to experience suffering then, I really don’t care about the serial killer, all that kind of person does is cause mass suffering for his own selfish motives. If I could exist without causing pain to others, I would. I try my best to be as kind and understanding as possible. Why did god make someone who loves to murder people? Why do humans like meat? Why is it that every time we take a step we commit mass genocide against microbes? It’s a pretty dogshit situation if you ask me.

@Keyhole well the possibility that we could be hit by an asteroid tomorrow and cease to exist permanently kind of destroys any hope for me that evolution is headed somewhere with an intelligent purpose. Maybe we are being shrouded by some karmic forcefield by god but I really doubt it. Also, anything formed cannot be objectively perfect. Perfect doesn’t exist except for in the realm of relativity. As I think about it more, the definition of “perfect” starts to become blurry, it’s hard to know what it even means. And to the “and we are also aware as well” point, like 99.9999999999999999^^^9999% of people don’t know that if it is true, so idk about that either. I will say though, on a side note, that that song is fire, lol.

Well, we could be born with knowledge of what we are from the get go, but in that case we would know that we are god and the illusion of self would become untenable. Given that we must stay in a shroud of ignorance pain is certainly an effective way of keeping us alive, but I can also conjure many other images of things being able to survive via positive motivation only. It would just require more ignorance and greater care. Like a baby bird in a mother’s nest, the babies most of the time don’t have a care in the world, they eat because they like it and they play because they like it. There is no suffering because it isn’t necessary. Why not make it like that for everything? @Leo Gura

The basic message is that in any scenario, if pain were replaced with pleasure, it would be objectively better, given the same outcome, same lessons, same everything. The only thing that changes is the raw sensation. @Leo Gura

@Leo Gura why is pain necessary for survival? Why can’t survival be fun? Many say the best lessons are the hardest to learn. Why can’t they be the easiest? Why include pain at all. God has infinite power, why couldn’t he make paradise? Why this constant battle. Why ignorance, why hate, why any of that. You can say “for love”, because god loves everything, but if god loved everything, why would he make his creations suffer? And I don’t mean to gender god, it’s for the sake of conversation.

@Serotoninluv could you elaborate on that? I’m not sure what that means. There is no situation in which suffering is better than neutrality or positivity, even if you are learning a lesson from that pain. You could have learnt that lesson in a way that caused a good emotion, rather than a bad one. The seeming fact that struggle is necessary for growth is immediately concerning. Why should we have to suffer to learn and change? Why would god do that? Some would say it’s to learn empathy. My response is, we wouldn’t need to empathize with pain if nobody felt it. Why can’t survival be a pleasureful process rather than either a pain in the ass or miserable? All of these questions regarding pain have never, ever been justified to me in a way that is even remotely reasonable at all. All I’ve heard is “for love”. What the fuck am I supposed to do with that response?

The idea that you can get “unlucky” is really fucking sad if it’s true. There should be no such thing as: you got unlucky so enjoy being tortured and raped for 30 days and then killed immediately after with no retribution. Justifying that with a sort of “god is all loving” claim just seems so hilariously contradictory. I’ve heard so many responses to the existence of pain like this and they just make me laugh with how poorly thought out they are. @Spaceofawareness

@Spaceofawareness ok and what about things like torture, where you can’t run away?

I personally think that voting as an individual is a waste of time. My individual vote means nothing amongst the sea of voters out there. Why vote if I have effectively 0 impact.

@Leo Gura I mean, even in a sea of only 1000 people my vote still has pretty much no impact. I still don’t see your point. The reason a killer would justify murder isn’t because he thinks “eh 1 in 7 billion, this has effectively 0 impact”, it’s because he just fuckin loves it or something. However, with voting, the reason actually applies. I don’t think the logic actually does mean all of those other things that you listed.

@Nahm indeed, but is it wrong?

Bump

So, I’ve noticed that every day for the past 6 or 7 months that every time I do not pursue or further my understanding of reality or answer the questions that I have I get a sort of extreme anxiety where if I ignore it for too long I end up getting a panic attack or just full body breakdown where I can’t move and I go into full fight/flight and it’s so hard to tell why. This happens consistently every single day. I can still enjoy life but many times its really fucking hard. I also feel at the same time that if I didn’t have this sort of forced move towards further understanding my life would be empty and meaningless. Does anyone know what’s going on/maybe can relate?

@Leo Gura how do I determine my own ego’s level of maturity?

Right now, I was finally able to accept the possibility that reality, my environment, and my identity could all be creations, or foundation-less constructs. I realized that even if they aren’t fundamental parts of some sort of grounded reality, I love them all anyways, and it doesn’t matter if I’m dreaming them all up. I haven’t confirmed or denied whether they are or they are not for myself, but needless to say I’m very relieved in a sense that I was finally able to accept that and discover that even without them being grounded, I can love them regardless, which is something I feared would be lost in this process.

So I smoked some weed and things all the sudden felt super, super different. I am used to the world being a certain way and when that was messed with I felt very uncomfortable and everything felt random. I felt like I was in some sort of psychedelic world where nothing is static and everything was abnormal as fuck. What should I take from this experience? I tried to let go as Leo’s video explained but I really could not feel ok. Everything felt so awful, so confusing and I just wanted to get out.

@Leo Gura I also have this strong desire for reality to be grounded in a sense. I want there to be some sort of home base because sometimes I’ll just look around me and think “where the fuck am I?” “Why here?”. It all feels so random. Do you find a sense of grounding in the groundless?

@Leo Gura Haha maybe, but the thing that scares me is that I’ll die before I discover it. And I mean physically. That is definitely my greatest fear and the thought that it could happen to me is fucking terrifying.

I watched an article on this 17 year old little girl who lost her memory function. She got “reset” every 2 hours or so. I cannot fucking imagine living like that. I would be so scared and sad. Everything a human being aspires for in life depends on a sort of history and future. You would be stuck in a loop until you die. The thought of being in that experiences sounds like actual hell, yet there is a girl in the real world who actually has to go through that. It’s just like, why? Why would any current age human being want that. And why would that be something “god” creates.

@Leo Gura eh man, at this point I’m getting a little used to the radical perspective shifts, I just get kind of disturbed by all the suffering in the world. Doesn’t make any sense.

@Leo Gura With time