Dylan Page

Ok so what if every person and entity in the universe achieves full self understanding? The universe is in a completely conscious state. Then what? Is there a finite number of things to learn about consciousness and self? There are obviously an infinite number of realities and such, but within a finite reality, are there still an infinite number of things to learn about what “you” and everyone else around you fundamentally is? What would one do if there was no one to help and nothing to learn?

I have no idea @Johnny5

So I have had this breathing problem for a month where it feels like someone is forcing their palm on my chest and won’t let up. This lasts pretty much the entire day except for when I wake up in the morning, but then it slowly comes on and is in full force after about 15 minutes after waking. I went to the doctors and they took lung tests, heart tests, blood pressure tests, the whole shabang. There was nothing wrong at all, in fact they all were exceptionally functional and normal. Yet I still have this terrible chest pain and shortness of breath. One of the doctors explained to me that it’s likely a deep rooted anxiety or stress that is now manifesting out of my subconscious mind. What do you guys think? If this is the case, what should I do about it?

Maybe this is exclusive to me, but whenever I think about what it is that I am doing in life, from a rather broad perspective, I always find that if that which I am doing is overly selfish, my life is pointless and a waste. If I am trying to make too much money, focusing too much on my health, etc. I guess I feel this way because selfishness ultimately never wins. At the end of the day, no matter how much money I make, how healthy I am, how whatever else, I’m always going to lose. I’ve been really contemplating what I should do about this. I think survival, health, money, entertainment, and the likes are necessary, but when they are all that one does in life, there is something fundamentally important missing. I find higher value in life by helping others, growing myself and my understanding of the world, and trying to make the world a better place. Not for my own benefit (except for the growth point), but for the knowledge that I’m really making a difference in the lives of others. I’m not sure if this higher motivation is “important” in any sense, of course factually is it not, but I mean in a more universal, spiritual way. One of my biggest dreams is that humanity will be able to fully accept all parts of itself, and eventually will work towards improving the lives of all other beings as well. In this sense I dream of a unity of all things, a co-existence that while finite, can be appreciated by all. I always wonder if this motivation is just a selfish pipe dream, or there is actual significance to it. Maybe it’s a motivation not from me, Dylan, but from the true Self, the one that is willing this body to type this, not the body itself.

I am absolutely terrified at the idea of dying before discovering the truth, understanding myself, understanding the world and helping to fix the world. Every day I think about it. I’m on this journey that is so fucking important to me and I realize that tomorrow I could get hit by a bus and none of it would even matter. I’m not sure what to make of this. Does anyone have any suggestions?

@Jonac I’m not gonna rely on it, I just don’t know.

I don’t know to be honest. I don’t want this life to wash away from me and have it not make sense. I want to know what’s going on. If everything will be ok, why I’m here. I feel like if I don’t discover these things then I’ll just be an ignorant robot. If I don’t discover these things then I won’t want to do anything in life but pursue meaningless pleasure and then die and not have any sort of grip on the world or purpose. Maybe it sounds like I’m being ridiculous or childish, caring about my “petty” life but seeing it that way seems so fuckin depressing. Like there is no even personal significance to my life. I don’t need to be special, but I just really want to connect with others and help everything be ok. It’s simply how I feel, I don’t want to be dead inside. @Preetom

@Drewnows I’m ok with dying via psychedelics, I would like to come back to me though afterwards.

No I’m saying that the people of our entire nation each have an individual kibble of dog food for a continent sized dog and whether or not I throw my kibble into the pile won’t make a difference on whether the dog gets full or not. If everyone uses this logic, the dog does not get fed. This logic is correct, so in order to circumnavigate the interests of the individual, everyone should be forced to throw their kibble into the pile, that way the dog gets fed. If this isn’t in place, anyone can just say, “ah well, everyone else is feeding the dog so I don’t need to”. @Leo Gura Maybe I’m just not seeing something so I’ll give this some more thought but, I actually just cannot see how this is wrong.

@Leo Gura man I’m not saying I want tyranny lol. It’s hard to explain this via my phone but just know I’m not a fuckin masochist who likes being whipped around. I don’t want tyranny, I still value democracy, I still care about government. I’m just saying it’s not effective at the moment in its current state.

I mean I don’t do the guilt thing that often lol but when it does happen, yeah, I guess I am a devil. There are tons of things I am afraid of and don’t like. Mostly because I don’t understand them. But, everyday I work towards further understanding, I’ll get there soon enough. @Leo Gura Just want to say thanks for the guidance, ur one of the only people I know that is legitimately honest with yourself and others and it shows.

You are not fully understanding what I am talking about and are being condescending. I am done talking to you. Don’t give me the common man bullshit. You either talk to me with respect or not at all. @Derek White

Haha what’s funny about it is that I literally feel evil when I act too selfishly. I feel like Gollum from the lord of the rings, just hoarding everything and being a complete douche, filled with shame, guilt, etc. I also have this weird confusion whenever I help people. Sometimes I’ll help someone and ask if I did it for a selfish or selfless reason. Like the difference between donating to charity because you actually want those people to have better lives or because you want to come off to the media as a good person. I pretty much never want to be the media guy. @Leo Gura

@Derek White @Leo Gura I’ve thought about this a lot. This has nothing to do with cynicism or laziness, nor do I believe it is a bad question. I’m calling into question the effectiveness of democracy and the individuals true impact on his/her government. I apologize if I am being repetitive as I have indeed made a thread on this in the past, but after a 2 hour argument with a friend on the matter, I really struggle to understand the reasoning behind even getting up to go vote. I truly do understand that it’s “not a big deal”, you know, it’s only 1 hour every 2 years. My problem is, that my vote literally is meaningless. No election is ever won by a single vote and given this information, I see no reason to try to, excuse the metaphor, create a tsunami by splashing the ocean waves with my hands. It makes no sense. Sure I can try to get other people to vote as well, but they can have the same logic that I am talking about above. I am starting the believe that voting should be made mandatory to eliminate this individual worth problem, as it is the healthiest way to continue our democracy. Again, no mal-intent here. I really am just trying to understand.

@Leo Gura Why do you value voting? I see it as a waste of time. My vote is droplet in the sea of others. My impact is effectively 0.

Do you all feel content, happy, satisfied, and accepting of the true nature of reality? Whenever I think about the true nature of reality, and I think how it might destroy the image I currently have of it, like how I have a belief that all livings things should work together. Sometimes I get really like, disturbed by something that could possibly be true. Something that disgusts me is living with a purely hedonistic mindset. Work pleasure sleep work pleasure sleep over and over till death. It seems so disgustingly meaningless it’s almost funny. So I guess I mean to say, when you reach the actual fundamental truth, is that sense of disgust still there? That disturbing feeling? Like truth and meaning are bad?

@AnTe how do you know there is a reason? How do you know sum total of all people created this reason? What is this reason?

@AnTe When I say disgust I mean more of like a visceral fear, like an extreme panicked realization that reality could be an infinite loop of hell from which one cannot escape. Sometimes I’ll get an idea that introduces the possibility of that and it’s scary as fuck.

I understand that things are limited and cannot do many things because of those limitations but I still don’t see why pain and the gazillion other kinds of suffering are necessary parts of life. What is pain’s function? Why would it exist? It’s fundamentally, conceptually something that just should not exist. Joy and other positive feels are self justifying, meaning they need to explanation to be understood and valued. I’ve kept an open mind and generally can at least conceptually agree with most of what I have heard from Leo, but I have never heard as satisfying response justifying the existence of suffering. It seems that no matter what, even if a lesson is learned or an achievement is got, pain and suffering can always be replaced by joy and beauty and the experience will be overall better. Like, why would god make itself suffer? What’s the point? Sure we gotta experience limitation and go through all incarnations in order to be infinite and shit, but those reasons seem so ridiculously dumb for justifying suffering. If I was going to love everything infinitely, why make my creations suffer? It really makes no sense at all no matter where I look.

I can see loving them when getting to know them. I can see understanding their reasoning, and would probably end up liking them. However, I don’t see why they couldn’t like something else, something that doesn’t cause extreme suffering to someone as a price for their joy or convenience. Why would god create it that way? And that was a really good story by the way, thank you for the effort you are putting into this conversation. @Serotoninluv

I have a friend who I’ve known for a really long time who I respect on so many levels, and I love being with him, but he has a lying and manipulation problem. He will tell little lies in order to get his way, even if it means others will suffer. I would say it’s really hard for me to love someone who finds joy at the expense of others. Empathy is probably the most important trait I look for in another person. @Serotoninluv

@Serotoninluv well I guess I just don’t get it right now. I am of the opinion that a world full of suffering is worse than a world that lacks it, because suffering is defined by a bad feeling while love is defined by a good feeling, roughly speaking. I understand the concept of conditional and unconditional love, but I really just don’t see how for example, a 27 year old girl getting tortured and raped for 44 days and then murdered immediately after is even remotely acceptable in gods eyes. Imagine the pain. She was begging to die. This actually happened, you can google it. It makes literally 0 sense to me. Hopefully with time it will make sense, because it’s really, really important to me.

@Serotoninluv do you disagree with the string of logic

I understand relativity completely and could ace literally any test on it. @Serotoninluv Ill write it out like an equation. Assumption 1: god loves creation assumption 2: god cares about the well-being of its creations. Scenario 1: 2 contradictory perspectives collide and both sides suffer. Scenario 2: they are put into different realities and allowed to be themselves without necessary suffering of another party conclusion: scenario 2 is better.

@Keyhole yeah I really have no idea. I just live my life and ask these questions and rarely get any sort of satisfactory answer. All I can do is keep trying, but if I don’t get there, I will not be surprised at all. If I had to guess, I think I’ll die with disappointment, because I don’t think I’ll ever get a reasonable answer. But who knows. Maybe I’ll get a pleasant surprise.