JonasVE12

I'm in sales. All I can say is the following... Know the ins and outs of your product. Think of all ways it will benefit your costumers life. talk more about benefits rather than features. What does a feature say more than the feature itself? How does that feature relate to the costumer? How will it benefit him? On of the most important things for me is being in the flow when I'm selling. If I talk to the costumer and I'm in my head, automatically I'll get a no. When I'm completely in the zone, when I'm confident, expressive and connecting to the costumer emotionally, then I have more chance of persuading him to buy. What I'll do is that I joke around a lot with the other person. I'll make them feel good, have a laugh and don't be very serious. Then I'll talk about the product and I'll make it seem I'm 'giving'. I'm doing that person a favour. Also you have to screen clients. Especially when you sell such an expensive product.

Get good at connecting with everyone on an emotional level. Feeling open & heart centered. Try to become good at flowing in converations with people and creating a bubble/container where you are very connected to each other and sharing good vibes. Vibes should be playful, fun, light hearted, dynamic and conversations have to be relatable and relevant to their personal experience. People are first of all emotional creatures that need to feel your emotions and experience emotions in your presence. If you are good at doing this, people will be a lot more open to 'take you in' and build a connection with you that is more expansive and exploratory. Then automatically, you'll start to build friendships with people you resonate with when you have this skill. You have to find people with shared values in order to build deep friendships. There's a low chance that a random stranger shares your values. You have to find places and opportunities where the probability is much higher. Like for example, when you like playing guitar - where would you look to find like minded people? Or if you would learn to attract women? There's communities for everything. If you like breathwork, psychedelics, and spirituality, then find groups relating to this topic. If you like Jiu jitsu? Join a club. It's not that hard. But you have to make sure that you have no emotional baggage that keeps you from connecting to strangers in an authentic way. So become good at talking to that old lady at the bus stop. When you see a little baby or child, stop for a second and try to connect with the little child. Make weird faces and make them laugh. Become good at making people feel good in general. You'll feel good in return, and people will want to start talking to you. They will not even want to stop talking to you.

Lol, funny story I went to Budapest for some weeks with a friend last month, and we found out madison was doing a bootcamp there. We then tricked madisons sales man into thinking we wanted to join Madison's bootcamp in Budapest. But actually we just wanted to know where they were going to meet up so we could observe and troll them. An observer spot is like 1.3k so we basically got it for free. We then went to the meet up location at the start of the bootcamp and acted like we were on the bootcamp lol. There were like 12 guys in total. Madison and 1 instructor. 10 students. Eventually we had to go away but observed them from a distance. The students were just told to approach without too much interaction with the coaches. It was only like 4 hours coaching a day and no nightgame. Madison and the instructor were just walking around and sometimes joining their sets. Some students reported that it's way overpriced and you're not really getting much value. The group energy is good though and it motivates you. There's almost no personal attention. You're better of finding a good wingman. Make friends with people who are also learning game. That's key imo. We went to the club at night with a student who was on that bootcamp and he also reported that there's not much value in doing the bootcamp. And I can see why. I mean, Madison and the instructor were just walking around in circles wearing their sunglasses, enjoying the 25k they earn from the weekend, while the students were sent off to approach..

Changing how your nervous system responds takes time and consistent positive action. Change your relationship to fear through changing how you relate to your body. Embodiment takes time. With time, you'll release more and more fear and transfer this into courage. You climb higher on the emotional scale and get more into courage, acceptance and peace. Stay commited to the journey. Love the fear. Don't identify with it. Feel the energetic flow in your body and allow the sensations to be and take action despite of it. That's courage. The body is the gateway to creating a positive relationship to fear.

Once you gain enough experience in meeting different kind of women, you'll quickly gain a sense for what you like and don't like. Know your own values and see what their values are. If they match, that is a proper foundation for a good relationship. Experience teaches you this. Who are you as a person? What does your life look like? What does your future look like? Do you want to explore and have adventures? Are you intellectual? Spiritual? How can she connect to your life? How can you bring her along in a way that is fulfilling for you both and has both of your best interest in mind? What are her goals, ambitions, her future plans? How can you you connect to that? Can you both be part of something bigger? You can connect to someone on many different levels - Emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, sexually. The ideal relationship has connection on all these levels. Go into the relationship with the mentality of 'I stay with you as long as we are having a good time and staying connected - Once any of us don't feel like the relationship is benefiting us, we can walk away. We don't owe each other anything'. That way you allow yourself to stay open to experiment and explore different people without guilt. Make sure she feels that way too.

For me it went a lot easier after I took LSD in public and approached women while on it. You allow yourself to feel vulnerable on it much easier. I literally went up to groups of women and said I would have sex with them as the first words that came out of my mouth. You can't be more direct. Before the LSD it was much more difficult. After the trip, my ego identity came back for the most part, but I realised what had to be done and that's just to push through the resistance, feel your body, relax into it and learn to love rejection. The indirect stops are good though, they will remove the resistance to stopping the woman. It will make it much easier in the end to approach directly because in your mind you are already inprinting the belief that it's ok to stop women. You are already stepping into the tension. That's something good. Maybe if it is easier for you, find women who are sitting down, make eye contact, smile, and notice if they are receptive (smiling back), and then approach with 'I think you look beautiful and wanted to say hi' with a giving energy.

Notice where you avoid tension in your life - and then gradually confront your resistance to stepping into the tension. It's all about emotional embodiment. Watch the fearless man on youtube.

Get into a social mood before the date so when you arrive, you are already in the zone. Interact with strangers on the street, ask a question and then roll into a short conversation. Do this with 10 strangers before the date and you'll feel much more calm when you arrive. When I go on dates, I'll always make sure I connect with people on my way to the date location. I'll also make sure there are some women I'll talk to as well so I'm already getting into the flow.

Watch the fearless man on youtube, it explains what this filter is and how to get rid of it. It's not difficult, but it requires consistent action from your part. What I do is that I go outside and meet someone new everyday. I made this commitment and so everyday after work, I go outside and I walk up to a stranger and say 'Hi, I saw you sitting here and thought I'd join you for a second, what's your name?' Or something that I relevant to that specific situation. For example yesterday I was walking next to a guy who was carrying his bike that had like 4 front lights, so I commented on that with a playful teasing energy. And it's all about the underlying emotional frame that gets the conversation flowing. When you have to think about what you have to say, automatically the other person will feel that disconnect. Good thing is that you will become a lot more embodied and connected to your emotions once you have some experience.

I have some practical advice. Go find a good wing or coach and maybe try going on a vacation with him where you both cold approach the whole vacation. Observe him. Learn from him. Pay him if you have to. When I first started cold approaching, I went on a vacation with a wing and I was shocked at how good he was with women. Almost any woman was instantly attracted to him and even women with boyfriends gave their number. He was constantly receiving messages from different women wanting to meet up. He didn't even recognize who they were because there were like 100 different messages. You subconsciously learn a lot from being in their presence and you'll set yourself up for succes that way. Abundance comes automatically when you learn good game. First learn how to attract women in general and then automatically you will find deeper connection with some women. But you first have to be in abundance. Then fulfilling romantic relationships can flow from that state of being.

Initially when you start approaching women you'll most likely be in an emotional state that is needing instead of wanting. Wanting is more about giving and sharing value. It is also a lot more independant of the outcome. Needing is a lot more about you and the reaction of the other person. They feel that and will be repulsed by that. You can't really help it but to start out in needing and then to progress to wanting. You rise up the ladder along the way as you gain more reference experiences and positive reactions. You adapt your energy and see what works. For me, a big shift happened when I tried giving people highfives. Try it 50 times with a needy energy and then 50 times with a higher giving/sharing energy. Then transfer this to approaching with women. Say 'Hey, I saw you just walking from there and I had to come over and say hi, what's your name?' - But say this with the same giving energy as with the high fives. Other side of the puzzle is being grounded in your body. Be relaxed, present and grounded. Almost all the communication should flow from your feelings in your body.

Any social anxiety present?

It may be difficult to see a way out of the apathy and stuckness. First of all sit with your emotions without wanting to do something about them. Allowing them, welcoming them and not trying to push them down. I know the feeling of not being able to connect with anyone because your energy is so contracted by the negative emotions you're holding in your subconscious. The solution is chasing small % of growth consistently in terms of revealing and releasing the emotions that keep you stuck. If you can't connect with anyone, get a job where you talk to people constantly. Like a sales job for example. Practice grounding and opening your heart with people. Practice sharing & listening. When you talk to 100s of people all day everyday, you open yourself up to many opportunities. Putting yourself in such an environment will automatically release much apathy and lower emotions. You stop caring & connection can flow more easily. You can try joking with people & getting into your body more. Your body is your emotional vehicle which drives human connection. I tell you this: Get a sales job. It's perfect if you're terrible at connecting with strangers. After that, it's much more easy to take the initial leap to approach women and focus on relationships. Understand that if you remain in your comfort zone, nothing will change ever. You can chase spirituality, meditation and affirmations all you want, but realise no change will happen if you don't take opportunities. When you remain in your comfort zone, you'll never truly get the chance to release guilt, shame, fear, etc and transform those to courage, peace and acceptance. Apathy/stuckness is a defense mechanism which holds you away from your fears. Surely do meditation, guided releases and energetic modeling to start to feel more. And also start to think about what you can do in the near future to get out of your comfort zone. Maybe plan skydiving for next week .

Learn to ground & push tension with women while being emotionally/energetically embodied. Are you reactive/nice guy type? Or rather shut down and numbed out? Your conversation content does not attract woman. It's all about the underlying embodiment & how connected you are to your own emotions and if you can express them unobstructed. Practice grounding out energy while talking & looking straight and slightly penetrative into a womans eyes. Grounding out means letting go of muscle tension and visualising/feeling energy move down from your spine. Like lightning that grounds out in the earth. This lets go of nervous energy and self referential thinking. Then you can feel your heart region while talking & grounding. While feeling & talking, reach for her heart as well. You'll feel that she'll respond differently instantly. It's very instinctual. Push the tension and if you notice she feels safe and receptive, connect to your pelvis and really feel this region while you talk to her. Find something about her that you can enjoy. Locate that feeling in the area of your turn-on (pelvis). You'll consciously have to do this proces first until you become embodied and it becomes natural. At the point of feeling your turn on while looking into her eyes, you know if she likes you or not. At that point, there might be extended eye contact and you just see it in her facial expression if she is attracted. Her pupils dilate. And once you become grounded and embodied, you can easily feel her emotions as well.

Do you have any feelings of powerlessness? How was/is your relationship with your dad? Do you have trouble with your masculinity? Do you have male friends? Do you feel inferior or submissive to other males? Any anxiety around masculine males? Feelings of inadequacy? I might be able to say something useful. You might want to check out the work of Joseph Nicolosi

Yeah, good points. It does take some time to become competent at it. Lots of sparring. I agree learning boxing can be enough for defending against a regular dude. It's easier to learn and you can apply it sooner after starting. Though, from my own experience, many fights end up in a clinch somehow, and if the other dude is bigger and stronger than you, you're basically fucked. Especially when the other person knows how to defend punches, it becomes even more essential to learn some Jiu jitsu and wrestling.

It's not important to be the strongest guy. In the context of a relationship, for the sake of keeping your girlfriend attracted to you, you'll better have some capacity to defend yourself and her rather than none. You want to have some ability to deal with challenging and confrontational situations. No ability to deal with physically confrontational situations will result in you feeling mentally and emotionally more vulnerable in situations that evoke emotional and physical tension between you and someone with bad intentions. This can be agressive or abusive people that challenge you verbally or physically. If you have no confidence in yourself in dealing with the situation physically, you'll feel fear and apathy in those situations because you have not yet established the self-image and emotional embodiment of someone who is capable of dealing with those situations if it would go too far. This is basic survival instincts. Also fear of the unknown. If you feel weak, you're woman will feel let down in those challenging situation because she relies heavily on her man for feeling safe around other men. The man usually has to ground tension for the feminine to feel safe to express herself. If you as a man can't deal with emotional or physical tension, you automatically get perceived as weak. For the strongest attraction, you want to make her feel safe and protected. You have to take responsibility for this. You shouldn't learn martial arts just for being attractive to women. You should do it to become a more powerful man, and to become more grounded. In turn, of course, you become more confident in yourself in all kinds of ways. Confidence is attractive to women so there you go. I would learn Brazilian Jiu jitsu first and if you have more time, do some Muay Thai with it as well. If a confrontation goes physical, chances are that it ends up in a clinch and then goes to the ground. If you have Jiu jitsu skills with some wrestling skills, your attacker has no chance and you'll control him without too much effort. The benefit here is that you don't inflict too much damage if you don't want to. You can control him, or either break his limbs or choke him out if you have to. With punching, you don't control how much damage there is done. It's good and even neccessary to learn a striking art though because a fight always starts standing with both people apart from each other.

I'd find out about what they are looking for in an employee. There are certain things they are looking for when interviewing you. Job specific skills is one thing. This can be expertise in a given area such as engineering, IT, Digital art, VFX. There's also another important thing that is intrapersonal skills that are valued highly in the context of the job you're applying for. In a sales job, it would be for example neccessary that you are a pro-active person. Not passive. You need strong interpersonal skills, empathy, insight into the psychology of the costumer, strong presence & conviction, ability to play with tension, friendly aura, result-orientated, etc. They will ask you directly about if you have these skills, but also indirectly by asking about your past experiences. You have to be able to connect the dots so you show that you have these skills. You have to give strong examples that show you have the experience and competence. So i'd find out about what intrapersonal skills are neccessary for your job and display your charachter and experience in a way that they really feel like you embody all those traits/skills they are looking for. Then there's also another important factor and that's your presence itself when you are being interviewed. You can give these perfect logical answers and have the perfect resume, but if you don't fit the personality type they are looking for, you're automatically being weeded out. You want to appear confident, motivated and enthusiastic. No one wants to hire someone who speaks emotionally flatlined and does not really care. But if you really want the job, show your motivation and really make them feel it. But don't be needy as well. Make a strong first impression. Also don't be fully honest if it doesn't fit their agenda. Always express in relationship to what fits their agenda. And make sure to have good communication. Resume should look good, no grammatical mistakes, dress nice, smell good.

I agree. Not everyone, not even most, but many do. When you have a preoccupation of using alcohol before going to a party because you want to avoid the nervousness inside of you, that's typical avoidance/escape. I sometimes drink alcohol as well, but it comes more from feeling inspired to have the experience you mention. It's not driven by anxiety or worry.

@fopylo Fine my dude. Go party and have fun. Nothing wrong with that. Drinking alcohol is also fine. I'm just warning you for a common trap that is relying on alcohol to develop a social persona. There's another trajectory that you can take that will result in you being embodied with confidence, courage and self-love and does not depend on alcohol what so ever. It's easy to deceive yourself into thinking you're developing your social skills while under the influence of alcohol, only to find out later that you're still the same nervous person. But if you just wanna have fun, and let go, and don't really prioritize a most efficient route to mastery of social skills, then you're fine.

@kinesin Dude, read between the lines.

@fopylo Yes dude , it's great to get out of your comfort zone and do things that are scary to you. Props to you. Alcohol or no alcohol, you still did it and congrats for that. Just saying that fundementally, it's more helpful to get out of your comfort zone while sober. It's more transformative that way. That's true letting go because you are forced to feel your emotions and you'll have a chance to be vulnerable and relax into them. When I say escapism & dissociating, it's what everyone does. They drink alcohol to get loose, remove shyness, nervousness and fear of judgement. But why can't we naturally let go and be expressive? Maybe getting out of your comfort zone while sober is more revealing & offers more opportunity to release. Just pointing that out as you said in a post in this thread that you are interested in improving social skills. Well...

Cool, but if you need alcohol to 'let go' you're not really letting go. Rather numbing down on your own emotions and dissociating from them. That's what alcohol does. From hearing your story, it seems like there's a lot of fear inside of you. In your situation, going to parties and social events might be good because it allows you the potential to work on this fear. I wouldn't rely on alcohol and drugs to let go though. This is escapism. It's cool to see yourself letting go and embodied with confidence though. It lets you see that there's something amazing behind the wall of your supressed emotions. I remember taking MDMA at social events when I used to have severe social anxiety. No self-consciousness anymore. Pure confidence and self-love. And the connection with people was amazing. Let me realise how much potential there is inside of me if I would work towards that place but sober.

Maybe you can combine getting better at social skills with working a job? A job in face-to-face sales would be perfect for that imo. I've done numerous sales jobs where I had to talk to people constantly. You learn to relate to everyone. It didn't even feel like working for me as I experienced a lot of joy through connecting with strangers and getting better at it. You become a lot more free flowing and costumers start to respond very well to you after some time. I had many experiences of costumers flirting with me. Once a mother came up to me with her 2 daughters and introduced them to me lol. Countless experiences of attraction & connection. For example, when I started out doing these 'social' jobs, I worked at a supermarket booth for selling coffee. When I started, no one was interested, but after some time, I couldn't keep up with all those people wanting to talk to me. Lots of flirting with women as well. So that is to say that a sales job offers a lot of opportunity to learn how to connect. I was very introverted and socially anxious when I began. When you talk to so many people, automatically you become more grounded & flowing. You can learn how to flirt while working a sales job. In fact, it's an easy route to learn flirting through working a sales job. You just have to choose the right sales job that offers the right opportunities. For example a multimedia company. An apple reseller would be ideal. You don't actively try to seduce her, but rather, you engage her from a playful state where you don't care, are relaxed and leading the interaction. You flirt through playing with the tension. Jokes, eye contact, smile, teasing. It can even be sexual, but you have to be really embodied and connected then. It can happen in an instant. It's good to work a job to survive and get your basic needs met. It's much better to get a job that actually fulfills you on a deeper level in terms of joy in the present moment & also how it helps you grow and embody your values. It won't be your life purpose or highest aspiration, but if it can help you get there....

Maybe you need to focus on a more direct path to learning attraction instead of using nofap as a distraction/escape from what you really have going on there? It's entirely unrealistic to expect Nofap to solve underlying resistances such as self-doubt and fear. These will only go away when you release these emotions and focus on becoming more courageous with women, directly. Then attraction between you and women can manifest in your experience effortlessly without having to 'do' anything, as you have adapted your way of being, which is permanent. Not saying that Nofap is useless. It can create some momentum of discipline and empowering energy, but if you don't channel that into persuing learning how to get better with women, it will not be of much use in the long-term. You say it yourself. You are a virgin. Do you think that is because you haven't done nofap? Or because you haven't welcomed enough courage and momentum to actually learn it directly? Because you are ran by fear?