jbram2002

It's only 1 pm and today is already shaping up to be a shit day. All I can do is attempt to be positive, but it's tough when I feel anything but.

@Anna1 We have our own computers. I'm in the living room with our adorable daughter and Mandy is in the next room over with a great view of our backyard.

@mandyjw Never underestimate the man cold! Even enlightened masters cannot withstand its power!

I think the number of people who believe they are enlightened is significantly higher than the number who actually are. I'd almost wager that none of us are enlightened, even those who we hold as enlightened masters. There are people who have awakened to something deeper, but I'm not convinced anyone has truly attained enlightenment yet.

@mandyjw See, that shows how good I am with time. It's all in the past.

@mandyjw That did happen over 2 years ago. Live in the present.

Hmm... would a stage Yellow person still "require trust" like a stage Green? I know I'm not really motivated by a fear of survival, God, or social approval anymore, and that guilt and reward motivators only work if I let them. Guilt motivators hardly work at all, but I can allow myself to be motivated slightly by certain rewards, although it feels less like a reward and more of a "here's an added bonus."

Since it's tough for me to dedicate any amount of time to listen to Leo's 2-hr videos, I decided to stop waiting for the opportunity to present itself and to simply do my own research on Spiral Dynamics. I found a handful of quick tips and images similar to this, so I'm curious where I lie on the spiral. I feel like it's clear to me that I'm above Blue at minimum, although I definitely remember when I was Stage Blue and Orange. I would like to think I'm Stage Yellow, but it's quite possible I haven't reached that level yet. Also, yellow is such an ugly color. I definitely need to move on to the far-superior Turquoise! The one thing I'm not so sure about is the left-hand descriptor. I don't feel like I live a chaotic life, but I do accept that change is inevitable. That's why I think it's possible I'm only Stage Green instead, since I'm not sure I've embraced chaos quite to the extent this is saying. Chaos seems to be a somewhat negative (relatively) state of being, despite it permeating everything around us. Having kids kinda pushes you into a chaotic state, and I've probably pushed back on that for far too long.

@Zigzag Idiot thanks for the link! This is probably the one thing I have the biggest struggle with right now. Perhaps if I can break through this, I can move on to the next step.

@tsuki I definitely have a habit of adding "suffering" to my pain. I know that it's all my ego trying to make things worse... but I don't know how to turn that off. Or even if that's possible. It's part of why I dislike exercise so much. I can't stand the pain, but the "suffering" that happens during and afterward (and sometimes even before) is even worse.

This isn't really a spiritual thing, but I've decided to go on a only-drink-water kick for a week (still eating normally). I tend to drink a fair amount of diet soda which I know is less than healthy. And as crazy as this sounds, I really dislike drinking water. So far, I've gone a day. And it sucks. I can constantly taste the last meal in my mouth since the water doesn't have enough flavor to wash it away. I'm starving since the water has no substance. I'm tired and low energy since the water has no caffeine. But Mandy tells me these are probably signs that it's... working, for lack of a better word. I need to focus on something other than how much I dislike drinking water, but it's not easy for me. I'm a creature of comfort, and even something as insignificantly uncomfortable as this messes with me constantly. And so it draws me back to a question I've had for a while: How do I stay present when the present sucks? If I'm running for exercise and I get severe shin splints, how do I remain present in the pain? If I'm tasked with a boring or painful chore, such as shoveling the snow off our driveway, how do I stay present? The pain tackles me and shoves me off the path, and my ego takes over full-force, grumbling constantly. "I shouldn't have to suffer pain. Someone else would enjoy this far more." And so, I wallow in misery during that time instead of embracing all the positives. I cannot see the positives in a snow-laden shovel while my back feels like it's on fire. This next week is a different sort of pain, but the discomfort still exists, and so does my egoic grumbling. Sometimes I wish I could just shut him up so I wouldn't have to listen to his bullshit.

Thankfully, @mandyjw is obsessed with grass-fed butter. And I mean obsessed.

Some people may simply be displaying art as well. You might as well ask if art by itself is high or low consciousness. Personally, I am not a fan of tattoos. But imposing that restriction on others would be low consciousness. Try to put yourself in that person's shoes, because you ARE that person.

The funny thing is... a decade or so, I was just like you, Andrea. So full of confidence that everything I knew was all I ever needed to know. And then I realized I was silly for thinking I could put God into a tiny box. He is sooooo much larger than that, and if you refuse to accept that you are wrong, then there's little that anyone can do to help. But it's fairly obvious that you don't want help. It makes me wonder why exactly you're here. Have you come to convert those in this site? If so, you're going about it the wrong way. Are you here to prove to us that you are superior? If so, you have not succeeded. This will probably be my last post in this thread. There is little use trying to describe the rainbow to a blind man.

This question seems misleading. There's no "right" answer. I would recommend trying to vary who you listen to as well since you get more insight by listening to more people. The answer to what you "should" do lies within, not on this forum. Do what you feel is right, but focus on gaining the most from what you do.

I think what I don't know about this revelation is what I should do with it. Knowing that I make people into an objective is one thing, but having goals in life is also generally looked on as positive. Should I ignore my goals with respect to others, or should I embrace them, but ensure they do not outweigh the goals of that person? This gets particularly tricky when the goals are considered "noble." I want to get closer to my wife and build up our relationship. I want to help somebody else see something that I see in them. But what if the other person is not interested? Or what if their methods of obtaining the same goal are completely different and may be incompatible with mine? I find that this is where I get into the most trouble recently.

Last night, I was thinking about objectifying (as a topic) and trying to identify moments where I may have done so. I don't ever intend to treat someone like an object, but I do find that I get frustrated with others sometimes when they fail to meet my expectations. But then my brain did something weird. Instead of saying "objectified," it said "objectivized." Instead of making someone into an object, I realized that sometimes I make people into an objective: a personal goal that I selfishly want for myself. When I reduce a person down to what I can get from them, even if I have good intentions, it's probably just as bad as objectifying them altogether. This objective could be a wide range of things from relationship goals to getting my lawn mowed to forcing someone else to conform to my thinking or ideas. But unless the other person is on board, this objective can be extraordinarily self-serving and blinding. When I objectivize someone, I put my goals ahead of their feelings and might trample all over them. Even if I take the time and effort to recognize their feelings, it doesn't matter until I reach my objective. This sort of thing makes us think we're being selfless and helpful, but we're just meeting our own goals. Maybe we need to forget about our plans once in a while and listen to what the other person wants.

The first part of your statement is your ego speaking. Until you realize you know nothing, you will never grasp Knowledge or the Truth. The Truth isn't always something that you can dissect and make sense from. Our minds are too small to understand it all. That's where faith comes in. If you want to prove your faith is strong enough, really truly let go of everything you have been taught and start over. If you have faith, you'll find your way back to the Truth. But you have to let go in order to get there. Clinging onto your baggage is weighing you down.

I feel like asking a forum of largely left-leaning individuals about the negative aspects of right-leaning politics is simply shouting into a silo and hearing your echos come back to you. I'm also left-leaning, but there are a lot of values in conservative politics. Keep in mind I'm talking about conservative politics, not politicians. There is a major distinction here, as politicians tend to represent extremes on both sides. Conservative politics tend to want to lower the risk of a corrupt government. This means lessening the dependence of the average citizen on government entities, such as welfare programs. They don't like the idea of having state-sponsored programs like welfare, health insurance, or many other items. Liberal politics tend to want to use the power of the government to aid those who need assistance, but when the government becomes too corrupt, those people will be in a terrible state. Conservatives tend to want privately-funded programs to aid in welfare, infrastructure, healthcare, etc, as it's less likely that they will fail in a corrupt government. Liberals tend to think businesses are as susceptible, if not more so, to corruption. Conservative politics tend to want to lower our national debt and reward hard work by not giving advantages to those who haven't earned them. Liberals tend to want to even the playing field and use national money to fund these projects. Evening the playing field means providing advantages to people who, in conservatives' minds, don't deserve them since they are potentially lazy, druggies, or otherwise willingly incapable of hard work. Conservatives tend to take pride in their own hard work and recognize the hard work of others. They tend to build tight-knit communities of hard-working, innovative people who can get by on less money, and they look down on those who need government handouts for any reason. Liberals tend to build loose networks of people who can give them the resources they use to further themselves, but they may be willing to discard someone who is no longer useful to them. There are benefits and drawbacks to both sides. In the American political climate right now, prejudices and strongly-held beliefs govern more than being openminded and conscious of the benefits brought by the other side. This is true on both sides: some liberals claim anyone who voted for Donald Trump must be a gullible racist, and some conservatives claim anyone who voted for Hillary Clinton is supporting obvious government corruption. There's no middle ground between "gullible racist" and "corruption." Unless you're both, but that's not what this post is about. In short, if you can't see any benefits to the other side of your argument, I'd probably guess you still have some work to do in your own spiritual journey. But don't feel bad. I daresay almost all of us have plenty of work left to do.

@Soul-lover 2020 You seem awfully sure that you are right and that you can never be wrong. There are hundreds upon hundreds of interpretations of the Bible. How do you know that yours is the correct one? You're just a man. What is Man? Worthless. Stupid. Worms crawling upon the ground. We have no ability to discern for ourselves absolute truth. But when we realize that we are one with God, we can start to see Truth. When you realize that every individual that has ever lived is one with God and that you are one with them, you start to see that we are all connected. You start to realize the truths of what Jesus said when he claimed that what we do to the least of those who don't even know his name, we do that to him. You have continuously stated your belief system as fact. I'll be honest; I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying as my personal belief system either. However, I have zero right to force my belief system on anyone else. Instead, I find it far more enlightening to encourage others to share their beliefs and find out where I am wrong. Because I assure you 100%: you are wrong in some of your beliefs. So am I. So is Leo and everyone else here. No one is perfect. Clinging to your personal belief system as the only truth is the epitome of ego. In fact, that might be the very definition of ego. Release your ego, and allow yourself to be wrong. Realize that everything you believe... EVERYTHING... could be a lie. Then pick up the pieces afterward and put them back together to find the truth. Refusing to take that first step means you will wallow in ignorance and ego until the end of your days. Do you really think you are the sole mouthpiece of God? Do you really think your beliefs contain all that is God?

@now is forever Nope. All I've really done is just try to focus on breathing for a bit. It sorta works, but I haven't really "gotten" anything from it yet. Just seems to calm me and that's about it.

Excellent, thanks! It's interesting to deconstruct things and put our own interpretations to them (I've done a fair amount of that with the Elements myself; such an interesting thing to think about!). Mandy tells me the best way to meditate is to picture thoughts as clouds and let them drift away, but I'm terrible at that.

I had heard that Aether is basically the combination of all the elements, the Void that fills the space between and connects all. I didn't realize it was created through Fire and Water. Do you have further info on that? I had assumed that clouds, steam, humidity was a combination of Water and Air, and probably seen as Air in classical elements.

When I say that, I mean it can be used as such. It can also be a very useful tool. We just need to ensure we're using these scales as tools and not ways to be superior to others. It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if you're more Air than Fire. You feel very opposed to Earth sometimes.

One of the interesting things about this town is that the people appear close-minded on the surface, but when you take the time to get to know them and really talk with them, a lot of them are far more open-minded than you would expect. This idea of any conversation with an IQ over 100 being a waste of time is precisely why small-town folk don't trust city folk. They feel like they are looked down on and hated, and so they hate in return. Prejudice and generalizations only serve to drive us apart. But when you push past those prejudices and really tap into the unbounded intelligence of a different sort, you can see what a small town has to offer. You can see the love, innovation, contentedness in their lives. You find many people who are close-minded, of course, but you'll find those same people in a city as well. You'll find gossipers in a small town, but they're in cities too. People are people, and once you start treating everyone like a person (or even like yourself), you can push past the bullshit and truly experience oneness. Of course, I'm personally atrocious at that. But I'm working on it.