Danioover9000

@bebotalk Technically not Israelis or even Israel, but they were considered a Jewish state and Zionists of Zionism before Israel. Israel is only founded after the British mandate and after they secured an alliance with the USA at that time. Considering the events of the Al Nakba it's very understandable they want their lands back.

@J J So what happened here is the arguer, Alex Jones, is using this Israel/Palestine conflict as a prop and red herring to sneak an attack against the government that's left leaning, and the current establishment. We can have plenty of arguments over the definitions of genocide versus ethnic cleansing, IMO what Israel's doing so more ethnic cleansing than a genocide, but categorizing it as a genocide also simplifies the issue because of the killings of both armed combatants(HAMMAs) to civilian Gazans in military combat, or deaths related to illnesses and injuries which could've been treated if hospitals were not being destroyed, or deaths related to thirst and starvation if Israel wasn't too restrictive of water/food supplies, as well as little incidents of shootings by some IDF soldiers in 'justified'. However it's important to stay broad and think in the big picture, and be aware when other biased agents are using this event to posit their ideology. I don't want to poison the well or ad hominem Alex Jones, but he's an alt right conspiracy theorist who's mostly anarchist against the main establishment, so I'd take his takes with a grain of salt.

@Javfly33 I agree there were a few fallacies made here like the projection argument and ad hominem/begging the question, which once again it all started with a bad framing for this discourse. Also yes, some spiritual communities are similarly guilty of ad hominems and question begging, and circular logic, but IMO that is insufficient justification to be demeaning to Sadhguru when he's in this emergency health situation. As far as my guess with Leo's take here? I think he's trying to state there are many degrees of awakening and spiritual experiences, while stating that no matter your genetics for spirituality, your body is still finite and limited, and is still being effected by causes within this world's physicality logic. I'm guessing he's just saying there are hierarchies and orders to these spiritual experiences, in kinds and degrees. I don't think he's triyng to downplay or demonize Sadhguru, dunk on him to prop up his psychedelic spirit methodology or be nihilistic. I could be wrong.

and are a few clip examples of his debate style.

@bebotalk I agree, although IMO Andrew Wilson's debate style would be more efficient because he does directly engage with argument points without the sophistry, and almost always manages to make Destiny angry from both his direct engagement to his interruptions.😂

@Ishanga I agree. If we hold spiritual masters, Zen monks, Buddhists, Gurus, and so on on a higher standard, or a high standard, we should respect them to some degree. If we respect @Leo Gura and his work here, then we should extend that same standard to Sadhguru and other spiritual masters that have their higher calling. Tangent but this whole thread is like this due to how it's setup from the beginning so no surprise it's this petty. I don't even know why this is in the society/political/government sub forum, this SHOULD BE IN THE HEALTH FORUM!🤦‍♀️

Felt like sharing this here:

@Bobby_2021 Crysty's fine, we've been busy renovating the castle.

A very interesting account, about 3,000 years ago. Take with some grains of salt, but there's some insight in it:

@Yali Because of the difference in how you worded your title to your post. Please reflect on those differences. If I'm simply projecting? Again, look at how you titled your post to your post. But I'm done, this thread won't last.

@Princess Arabia Yet there are some users here taking his health condition making light of his situation while sneaking in their bias and hate for spirituality and Yoga/psychedelics. I just find his title misleading from his post. He should have titled it like 'Are Gurus really immune to health issues? The case of Sadhgurus situation', and appropriately context it that way formally and tried to frame it without being so triggering, but there's this misleading relationship between his click bait title to his framing of the post. It's logical that his first post sets the tone and conversation forwards which increases the probability of insults, name calling, low quality threads, derailing, and so on bad forum behavior, inviting unnecessary drama, as evidenced by how many mods and the admin himself being here. But I'll back off and leave this thread as it's clear this'll not last the distance.

Interesting view from this podcast:

@Yali Bad framing because you introduced 'Sadhguru undergoes emergency brain surgery after ‘life-threatening bleeding’', but then followed by the qualifier of 'even enlightened individuals are not above a lack of health.' so which is it? A discourse of the health crisis, or a discourse of undermining spirituality? All the while when being fully aware that Sadhguru's life is hanging by the thread of neuroscientists and surgeons trying to save his life. Do you have any semblance of morality or human decency by trying to insinuate an insult towards him? Are you aware you are kicking a person insensitively when he's fighting for his life right now? Is the reason why you made this thread just to attack and stir up drama among some users here who follow Sadhguru? This is why your framing of this entire situation is a bit bad faith and causing some users here in-fighting, which also causes more moderator work to manage this thread, see?

@Salvijus No, originally this thread, by the OP is 'Sadhguru undergoes emergency brain surgery after life threatening bleeding.' So in theory it's supposed to mostly be about health issues of the brain, news about Sadhguru and his health condition. Also the Yoga versus psychedelics was being brought up for several pages on, along with other domains alongside the Yoga versus psychedelics that makes me uncomfortable because we're talking about a guy that suffered some aneurism of the brain. We all shouldn't be behaving like this and instead praying for his recovery. @Yali Technically IMO this is a bad framing by the OP, this should be mostly a health topic. He's shoe horning in enlightenment and spirituality alongside a health event. OP's framing is why this thread is derailing and lowering in quality as time passes on. Ad Hominems:

@Salvijus The main issue with this entire thread is we're all both begging the question of Sadhguru's condition, around with methodology between traditional spirituality versus psychedelics to achieve awakenings or other mystical spiritual experiences, and the second fallacy is a bunch of reworded ad hominems to Sadhguru despite the health crisis he's going through. Have some patience, compassion, and some HUMAN DECENCY FOR GOODNESS SAKE! We're all having this argument and debating about spirituality this versus psychedelics that, or over working versus laziness, having these passive aggressive implied insults to Sadhguru when he's in the middle of a health crisis.

Before posting more documentaries on the Palestine/Israel issue, I want to briefly clarify what has happened in this thread. A lot of fallacies including begging the question has happened, from just believing what IDF and pro Israel biased views say about the situation with Gaza/West Bank, versus what pro Palestinians say and sometimes blind support and belief in HAMMAS or other terrorist orgs nearby, especially begging the question: and Are worth contemplating. Think before you choose to argue your points, position and views in this subject. The Israel propagandists are especially guilty of restating and begging the question, more so than the Palestinian propagandists who mostly morally condemn IDF's actions. With that said, let us go back to sharing documentaries of this issue.

@High-valance Another stable of Destiny's fallacies is he poisons the well, for example he poisons the well with John Mearshiemer, but notice that he commits a prior fallacy of disclaiming that he's committing the poison the well fallacy to his viewers AS IF that justifies his slanderous claim of John's sources for his argumentation of the Ukraine/Russia conflict: Here's also a good explanation of begging the question:

@High-valance I agree, evasion and distortion attempts include dodging, deflecting, weaseling and goal post changing, also straw mans and red herring fallacies deal with the other arguer funneling attention to the weakest point or exaggerated bad example of the argument point, and misrepresenting the other arguer's position and argument as that straw man. Begging the question is another common one, but so is cherry picking and sunk cost fallacy. Below is a good example of some of these fallacies: https://x.com/TheOmniLiberal/status/1770726826861621593?s=20 Notice how Destiny keeps on reframing, misrepresenting and trying to focus on a specific weak point of Normand Finkelstein's argument, and makes it seem it's mostly his position. Destiny has a bad habit of these tactics for the majority of his 12 years of being an online gamer/streamer/political commentators and debate bro. Similarly Avi suffers from this but he over analyzes and reduces to hyper logic takes, both tend to argue and make a giant deal out of semantic issues.

@Davino That's always the problem with sunk cost fallacy, you just keep on sinking down and down...

@Juan We are not judging him negatively. The main issue is Mr. Beast's toxic workaholic syndrome and Neoliberalism/late stage capitalism he's entered. It's one thing to be a philanthropist, but Mr. Beast is MISERABLE while doing this, and there's an imbalance to this, that's the main contention we all are having here and @Leo Gura as well.

@Hello from Russia Case in point Mitsubishi, Yamaha, Sony, and other Japanese large companies. It's more capitalism there and it's so integrated than the USA that toxic work culture, Neoliberalism, hyper conformity, along with multiculturalism and egalitarianism is leading to rapid decline of birthrates in westernized secular countries.

@Ishanga Oh yeah I remember the accusations, nasty. However it keeps karma busy and the devil happy to serve itself more dark souls.

@bammy32 Yes he's going to get better, I prayed for his recovery!😊

I have never seen such a biased podcast of almost 5 hours long arguing over nothing, and circling around the obvious glaring historical events that CLEARLY demonstrates which is is more wrong than right. Your thoughts? Has Lex Fridman's moderating is questionable? Also some good takes on this podcast: