Danioover9000

@mmKay He pulled that information from @Leo Gura's hypothetical example of a Nazi putting a gun to your head.

@Leo Gura I see, so you're real argument here is not that Nazism=conservative alt right, but Nazism=nationalism and ethnic/religious nationalism? Especially considering that after 9/11, most people were cowed to anti Islamic, pro American backlash LEFT and RIGHT, therefore it's not necessarily that Nazism is only a right wing conservative thing, but a Nationalist thing? So Zionism=Nazism?

@OBEler Wait, historically 80% of workers in factories during WW2 are Jewish, and about 40% of them were both killed off or expelled during the holocaust. How is that under 1% of Germans during Nazi Germany? Also what I mean with women in that time is when most Nazis wat all women to be housewives only. In fact when Hitler and his Nazi party learned that women were part of the soviet army they were horrified and thought the Russians barbaric. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiEyLfV8JKFAxX8-gIHHVFhBIcQFnoECA4QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fencyclopedia.ushmm.org%2Fcontent%2Fen%2Farticle%2Fgermany-jewish-population-in-1933&usg=AOvVaw22UZMwoGOY0FWQctTXadGa&opi=89978449 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjphvz48JKFAxVIxQIHHfmYAsIQFnoECBkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.shu.ac.uk%2Fresearch%2Fin-action%2Fprojects%2Fbeing-black-in-nazi-germany&usg=AOvVaw2hxPlp8TUb9x3nbWt36Koh&opi=89978449

Unless you're a black person, a Jew, and a woman.

@OBEler Yes, and when Germany lost WW1, when the Axis powers severely did economic sanctions, and the Nazis recruited Hitler the energetic charisma guy and everyone fallen for his demagoguery. Don't forget about what happened prior to lead into those conditions for Hitler.

@OBEler Better, but now it suffers from being too general and broad. Allows for a million things or groups, too open to many variables so within the argumentation, as an analogy it suffers.

@Leo Gura You mean when 'a dictatorship' is established? Don't know about the Nazi pointing a gun to your head, oddly specific.

@OBEler I would argue that you partly need not just conservatives, but also traditionalists, and more so nationalism/ethnic nationalism/ religious nationalism, and the establishment losing badly in some famine or natural catastrophe or war that the alt left/right can then take advantage of.

@OBEler You can argue that due to Hitler's charisma and charm, that demagoguery allowed him sway over the majority of Germans, which BTW lost in WW1 and the Axis powers punished them severely with economic sanctions, which if the American president at the time didn't die from illness would've presented a far better solution to handling Germany's defeat in WW1 and the German traditionalists then lost. The axis powers then are solely responsible for making an environment that Nazis would eventually develop into. Also your analogy is kind of sexist to women, please make a better one.🤦‍♀️

@Leo Gura If you don't give a fuck abut Destiny, why do you care so much about his political views being intelligent, nuanced and moderate? How do you square that performative contradiction? Also, Destiny's sociopathy, and willingness to both platform, debate, talk, and befriend a Neo Nazi is the most relevant weakness he has when it comes to talking and debating about the alt right or Nazism. Also, if his views are intelligent, nuanced and moderate, why did he take such an extreme stance being pro Israel, and propagating American exceptionalism?

@Leo Gura He has demonstrated enough of his misunderstanding of Nazism in that stream with Mr. Girl, and how he was redefining what a Nazi is when pushed back was given. Yes, Destiny did not portray himself as an academic, but instead as a debatebro and political commentator, who live streams and plays online games. He knows enough about marketing, most of his fanbase, and will farm public outrage just enough it's not libel but enough for viewers to click on him. Should Destiny be disqualified from talking about Nazism? If you're willing to disqualify Jordan's stance on Nazism then you can also disqualify Destiny as well, and the evidence for that is how Destiny implicitly endorsed Nick Fuentes, buddying up to him even knowing he's a Neo Nazi and willing to platform and debate Nick Fuentes when the more morally right thing to do would've been to not platform or be seen with him. Yet due to his multiple bans from Twitch over rape and racist jokes, he had a soft spot for Nick Fuentes. I can list more proof if you need it from way older streams, they were together and close for some time. If the issue isn't who you talk to but the ideas you promote, then when looking at Destiny's take on John Mearsheimer's arguments for Ukraine/Russia, and lately his hot takes with Israel/Palestine, then the idea he promote is American exceptionalism and American liberalism? Do note when it comes to foreign policy Destiny is a bit weak on that take.

@OBEler Now on this point he's fine to have his big picture takes. Just when it comes to argumentation he has to be wary of performative contradictions and false dichotomies. Yes reality is complex and got a lot of combinatory moving parts, but in logical debates and arguments you gotta be careful of those appeals and fallacies.

@Leo Gura The main problem is that at that time Destiny willingly platformed Nick Fuentes who was known as a Neo Nazi, he allowed this osmosis between their 2 fanbases knowing who and what he stood for! It's not just talking or even debating a Nazi, Destiny was BEFRIENDING a Nazi! Therefore in this discussion and debate with Jordan Peterson, would this equate and count as a disqualification as well? Both arguers here are equally guilty of misrepresenting this Nazi ideology in their talks, so would you also consider disqualifying Destiny as well as Jordan? At least IMO both Destiny and Jordan sold their souls to the devil in this mistake.

@Mormegil He lost the war because Hitler was known to not listen to more experienced generals in warfare. If he did so much as take in 30% of advice more, then the outcome would be drastically different. Due to Hitler dismissing 95% of general's advice in war, he lost the war. Instead of trying to recruit Spain which at the time was in major debt to Germany, he ignored that advice. Instead of focusing on one side of the war, he divided his troops everywhere, westwards and eastwards. Instead of delaying the holocaust at least until he won and conquered much of Europe, he made the holocaust happen too early and lost 40% of Germany's workforce. Instead of working more closely with Japan against Russia, he didn't. Due to Hitler's egotism and not listening to general with good experience in war, he lost the war.

@OBEler That's true, furthermore in reality it is possible that a person is so far right extremist that in some situations they become far left extremists too, AKA the strange loop effect. Anarchists/libertarians or even communists are so far left that they can be so far right in certain issues, for example looking at the concentration camp in China's country with the Ugyers.

Also, I have to point out to @Leo Gura in his blog this statement: 'It's a shame that Destiny let JP get away with such trash.'. If you consider Jordan Peterson disqualified for making this Nazi/conservative ahistorical, associating Nazis as a left-far left ideology, does that also cover Destiny as well? Seems Destiny is buddying up with Nick Fuentes, a neo nazi. Should this also disqualify Destiny as well as Jordan?

@OBEler Have you made this thread in response to this blog? https://www.actualized.org/insights/fyi-hitler-was-a-conservative

@OBEler Not to mention borrowed a bit from Buddhism and spiritual traditions, the windmill symbol for peace they took, even from Judaism's Kabbalah and qlippoth they took As well, so I agree argumentatively this is a false dichotomy and false dilemma being set here.

@OBEler I actually agree with your takes here, as argumentatively this: @Leo Gura Is a weak argument to make. So much ad hominems, judgments, obfuscations, appeals to authority and popularity, red herrings, slippery slopes, and a few other fallacies that an arguer can break down into several sub arguments. That being said, when it goes from argumentation into reality, it's both complex and combinatory with other factors involved. But in argumentation it's weak and has some performative contradictions.

I guess lack of engagement = engagement of lackluster users.

@Nivsch Few questions here are: Did they coerce/blackmail/intimidate Ohad Merlin into saying that? And how much bribery went to him? Also what kind of name is Ohad Merlin??? MERLIN????😭😂🤦‍♀️

@Davino But you're first paragraph is just an appeals to possibilities and averages. Just because Sadhguru has a lack of self love doesn't necessarily mean that his overworking, over dosing on pain killers/sedatives is a direct effect from Self Love. You can have some individuals who have self love, but are still addicted to pills, overworking, or eat too much. An increase in self love/=/change in behaviors, it's actually the intent and overtime habitual application of a change in behavior. The problem with your second paragraph is on that analogy which doesn't make sense to me, that I have to be the car or me and my car is separate doesn't necessarily mean a change in behavior. Plus this is a sub argument involving philosophy and existence which I'm not engaging with. Third paragraph is deeply problematic, from confirmation bias of Leo's spiritual work, to cherry picking the nature of god, to assuming so much about god's nature. Again I don't want to dive too deeply into this spiritual and philosophical jargon here, but you're also basically making an ad hominem fallacy, not guilty by association but treating Leo as some saint, and assuming that he is right in his talks about psychedelics and the nature of god. You're are basically in this argument point letting most of the heavy lifting be done by Leo and not by your own argumentation to justify your past assertion about Sadhguru and his health condition. So to you this: 'I took a very careful approach from the beggining and took my time to arrive independentely to a deep understanding of the situation. Take the position you want, I'll also do the same.' justifies 70% of posts you did here demeaning Sadhguru and his health condition, and 30% is you appealing to centrism and both siding this issue? Is that a careful understanding of this situation? Or most readers here are misinterpreting your self-love because of your failures to define those terms and your mistakes to connect them to a convincing assertion about Sadhguru and his health conditions? Maybe it's more to do with how you communicated so far in this thread and how you handled opposition to your views?

@Nivsch Only HAMMAs? So this means that IDF were fighting HAMMAs men, women, children? Including unarmed Gazans too?