Danioover9000

@bebotalk Speaking about Destiny, there's also Dark Viper who is a decent speed runner gamer, who made some good videos on the reaction community being toxic, and some others. He even had a pseudo debate with destiny 4-3 years ago on ethics. Found a few videos that are interesting and reveals more of Destiny's character: and especially: Because this contradicts the man, the myth, the legendary Destiny, said to DEBATE ANYONE ON ANY TOPIC! That's his marketing and manifesto, to debate anyone with any topic, and talk to everyone willingly...YET DOESN'T DEBATE DARK VIPER ON REACT CONTENT AND COMMUNITY! What are you hiding???GTFO of your room and debate BOI!!

What do you guys think or feel about this conversation? To me, it's a solid exchange, but it's simplistic taking into account developmental factors like Spiral Dynamics stages of development(By Clare Graves and Don Beck), cognitive and moral development, personality typing/traits(By Myers Briggs personality modal and Big Five personality traits modal), 9 stages of ego development(by Jane Loevinger), Architypes and shadow work(By Carl Jung), Integral Theory and other lines of development in life and social domains(By Ken Wilbur), ideological beliefs groomed, gaslighted and indoctrinated by culture, family structure, and information ecology like alternative/mainstream news, newspapers, radio, video, TV programs, advertising, social media, community, schooling and peer pressure from peers and teachers to conform to ideology, and many more information intake points that manufactures consent(By Noam Chomsky) which influences your worldview, self biases and preferences. What are your thoughts?

@zazen Such a great post.

@danniel Obviously the case.

@kenway Very nice share, such a reasonable take on this whole situation, wish more people are like him.

@Buck Edwards My reply is much deeper than the video, and answering from the basis of if it's justifiable to FEEL and THINK hatred of someone or some groups, not if it's justifiable to act and behave from hatred, which I covered in that second half of the reply. Short answer is yes, give yourself permission to feel so in the context of emotions and feelings, and your inner dialogue. In another context of thinking/feeling, and taking action, that is highly dependent on the situation. For example in the video the guy's expressing his hatred through speaking, which gives us a peak into how he might think and might feel via statement analysis, tonality and body language, and also allows us to approximate his value system, cognitive and moral patterns, personality and psychology, his ego development, his general state of being/becoming and shadow aspects of his psyche, other lines of development, ideology, self biases and preferences, all indoctrinated from culture, family upbringing, interactions with peers and others in his community, information intake from news, TV, radios, videos, social media, other points in this internet ecology we're in. Him expressing that bit of hate in himself also allows us to compare and contrast if we wholly or partly relate with him, and what shadows we have hiding in our subconscious minds, and tests our understanding and empathy for such people with hate. So, short answer, speaking for me, is probably no, not okay to express hate via behavior and speaking, but I am not ignorant to want complete thought policing, otherwise how would I know if I'm wrong, or biased, or have shadows in me if I don't get to witness another ego that contains that which I deeply suppress in me?

@BlueOak Great post, glad I baited a longer reply out of you. Will check out the wiki and research this.

@Twentyfirst NAH! Taoism is warm and cool, but Imma project Kanshou and Bakuya, way cooler. Peace through archery!

@Twentyfirst Of course! Islam is the problem in the Middle East, not the demon worshipping pagans that existed before Islam! Clearly Zionism are angels that proclaim only god's chosen people can live in Judea, and Jerusalem, and nobody else! Easily other religions like Christianity and Islam, even Hinduism and Buddhism have indoctrination tactics in their scriptures, but not the Torah in Judaism! Every religion out there deluded and trying to convert people by texting, but not Zionists proclaiming they are god's chosen people! And NetanYahu is the new yahoo!

@Buck Edwards Similarly to @PurpleTree and his: But I'll have a different take on this issue. Is it justifiable to hate migrants, or anyone, or even anything? Yes. Yes, because hatred, or hate, is a conglomerate of many similar and different negative feelings/emotions that could range from some apathy(depression, laziness, boredom defeat), to grief(lose, sadness, guilt, betrayal, hurt), to fear(terror, insecurity, worry, nervousness, and many types of phobias), to Lust(greed, possessiveness, obsession, cravings, pleasure, frustration), to anger(annoyance, disgust, rage, contempt, masking of hurt, revenge), to pride(feeling icy, cold, stoic, judgmental, intellectual/moral superiority, hubris, aloof), less towards the upper more higher conscious emotions like courage(confidence, creativity, happiness, security), to love( feeling of glowing, love, joy, passion), and peace(holistic, grounded, emotionally fluid, calm, serenity, integrated). Hatred is much similar to disgust, repulse, contempt, and revenge. Because you ask if it's ok to feel hatred toward someone or something, then yes allow yourself to feel that hate. It's mostly not healthy to resist and suppress certain emotions in you, which builds up emotional catharsis that has to resolve later on, sooner or later. However, if you worded the question like: Is it justifiable to hate migrants AND act hateful, express hatred, towards them behaviorally? I'd say it's highly dependent on context and situation you are in relative to that migrant who is now the source of your hate. For example, you walk and you witness a sexual assault of a woman by a migrant, I'd say you are justified to both feel some hatred and even righteous anger and take some action. If you are in a situation when you got jumped by a migrant, got your stuff stolen and a family member got hurt, you are justified to feel hateful to that particular migrant, and justified in feeling vengeful. I'd normally say no, and generally better not to act out of hate, but then I'd sunk cost fallacy myself as there might be some exceptions when a situation is so bad and evil, involving a migrant attacking you or someone you love in someway that then questions me telling you what to think or feel, as who am I to tell you if it's right or wrong, if it's fine or not to FEEL and THINK in HATE that it's like me thought and emotion policing you. So, highly depends on context, and don't beat yourself up for feeling hateful.

@Majed Sure, I would agree that Hezbollah is a group that has values matching stage red values, if you go by Leo's and the modal's listing characteristics of stage red as the short following: Dominance seeking, glory and boasting, showcasing, to control and winner takes all, egotism, egotistical, power trips and power dynamics, corruption, mafia, Cartel, criminal organizations, the black market, human slave trade, human trafficking and sex trafficking rings, pedophile rings, some genres of pornography, variations of doggy style, scams, swindles, con artistry, frauds, criminal and evil acts, violence, war crimes, tribal warfare. If you agree with the following then Hezbollah would fit. However, that's a general categorization of Hezbollah as purely stage red, and assumes Hezbollah is just stage red. What if they're not purely stage red, and how do you account for say some elements of stage purple values in their tribalism, or elements of stage blue in how they mesh together with them building social infrastructure like hospitals, schools, farm? What about elements of stage orange individualism in their leaders and them being more separate from the Lebanon government? And backing from parts of Syria and Iran, in military supply and training, which makes Iran and parts of Syria complicit in Hezbollah's power dynamics? Even in the video the guy fronts objectivity, and struggles to define terrorism when when we have Spiral Dynamic's view of terrorism from Don Beck himself in a graph! Obviously martyrdom is a very easy concept to misunderstand and to weaponize depending on your bias and ideology, as in Zen Buddhism the concept of no self, God realization found in esoteric branch of Christianity, and many other hardcore spiritual branches they have their interpretation of martyrdom, so funny how the guy doesn't properly define martyrdom and loosely defines it to fit his life experiences in the military as dying for a cause, well that's exactly what Hezbollah, other middle eastern terrorist groups, and many different types of terrorist groups if you look at Don Beck's graph of terrorism through Spiral Dynamics. From terrorism in stage purple tribes, to stage blue religious terror or even nationalism(the guy who killed Mahatma Gandhi was a Hindu nationalist not a Muslim), to stage orange terrorists like Anonymous as a non-state org world wide, and stage green environmental terrorists and ANTIFA. Even the Uni bomber had some stage green and yellow values in him, with motivations for his acts of terrorism matching some stage yellow to green and some orange values. So obviously to me, the guy in video is right in being a bit hesitant to really define and clearly explain martyrdom and terrorism, and freedom fighters as that duality not only is confusing and dynamic but is very emotionally charged for most western audiences.

@BlueOak Easy: Hasan, XQC, Ethen from H3H3, Vaush, Stardust, and many other social media personalities. Some of them even willing to smear actual real life conservatives or moderates as Fascists if they don't agree with their ideology, or can't win an argument so they go into smear campaign mode.

@sholomar Sure, I agree here on the left, especially that the internet and online cultures have made this online variation of the left, the hyper socialist/progressive online spaces shout Fascist at you for merely simple disagreements that could have resolved with dialogue or even some argument, but no! As soon as you disagree with me, and you are out debating me, I just call you Fascist for being a traditionalist/conservative trying to live your life and work a bit hard for you and your family, because obviously a hard working conservative person is a Nazi. This is the legacy that Vaush, Hasan, h2h2 Ethan, maybe Destiny and many other online big names out there will leave, if you strongly disagree just call'em Fascist. This is why the internet and online cultures have negative effects across the developmental factors like values, cognitive and moral development, personality and psychology, self to mass consciousness, states of being/becoming, Integral Theory's lines of development in life and societal domains, ideological beliefs groomed and indoctrinated via culture, family upbringing, and information ecology monopolized by big tech companies via news, radio, TV, video, social media platforms, from mainstream to alternative, to manufacture consent in the masses for consumerism towards the ideologies of capitalism and neoliberalism. Despite the design of each social media site and online spaces, from Tik Tok's addictive and attention grabbing and attention stealing format, to the clips and shorts which incentivizes shorter attention spans, to dating apps that can beautify profile pics which increases narcissism and self entitlement, to the anonymity and the ease of making various user names and IDs that opinions are not as articulated carefully, and the negative ramifications are not there as opposed to real world ramifications of hating, trolling and pranking face to face, and many other factors in the internet that have made Gen x and more Gen Z much weaker in mind, body and soul.

@Juan But the outcome and result of this discussion is going to get weaponized by the polarizing views of the debunking skeptics versus the believers of this UFO phenomena, so if this Malaysian airplane disappearing is false, then those who are biased and prefer for UFOs existing will get dogmatically defensive while the dogmatic skeptics glee, but if Malaysian airline is real, it actually disappeared, then the reverse happens. These binary back and forth of those who argue for and against this phenomena, are gridlocked into proving their little biases of the truth are real and better than the other's view of truth, so it's mainly to persuade and convince and propagate an ideology in the back of their minds to spread onto other minds. What both perspectives on this issue ignore and are ignorant of, is that their ego minds construct narratives and attach meaning to whatever happens in the world. The ego mind doesn't like unknown, has a fear of unknowns because narratives are harder to construct at an unknown, so the mind creates concepts/ideas/beliefs on top of the actual unknown event/thing, so the ego minds of the believers believe blindly in the concepts/ideas of those unknown phenomena and even spirits/ghosts and other paranormal/supernatural events, but away from the ACTUAL UNKNOWN of what those concepts point to. Likewise the same for skeptics and debunkers and scientific materialists dogmatically believing in the physical world, they also have ego minds that construct an anti narrative about the unknown things/events as imaginary and fictional, on top of the ACTUAL UNKNOWN, attacking and undermining a fantasy image of the actual unknowns, like Big Foot and UFOs for example, both the believers and non-believers arguing for their version of the actual unknown.

@Buck Edwards I think best advice is vote based on your beliefs, and your bias. If you are identified as democrat, you vote democratic. If you a conservative/republican, vote republican. It's that easy in America. Don't vote because Biden's cool or Donald Trump's cool, vote on your principles. I wish America evolves to have either a limited democracy, or a third party or more party state as I'd like to vote more than just republican or democrat, I want more options, not just sleepy Biden or orange Trump or whoever the next republican is.

@Lila9 How is it heartbreaking that many cultures were removed when Islam occupied the middle east, taking into account the rampant rapes and pillaging that these tribal cultures often do with each other due to differences in worship, in iconography, in having multiple nature deities, in having fringe worldviews? Those stage purple/red tribes can't even agree on a consensus reality that doesn't include their tribe as the dominant structure in that consensus, and when Islam emerged as a religion seeking to unify under it's organized religious structure the many tribes, the many stage red/purple tribes violently resisted. Yes, I agree the middle east looked so differently before Islam emerged out of necessity, so many varieties of deity worship, tribalism, tribal warfare, slavery, murders and rapes, vast and huge in so many ways to live life per tribal structure that who knows who had the right way to live life? Do you know which tribal structure is best for the world then? Do you know which way of tribal life is best in the middle east? Yes I know right? When Islam has superiority everyone in that place is so violent under the caliphate Islamic subjugation, under the Sufi and Shia differences and similarities, with their interpretations of the Quran. Damn, Indonesia and it's Muslim dominant Islands so violent, it's a miracle how Islam can mix well with Hinduism and Buddhism and Christianity in some of those Islands. I agree nobody cares about Palestinians and those other 50 occupied Islamic countries, but conversely nobody cared to point out that Israel is pseudo copying Nazi Germany's expansionism and mistreatment of Palestinians in Gaza and West bank as second class citizens, to guess what? being called an anti-Semite, maybe worse than being called Islamophobic right?

@Nivsch Is it reasonable and safe to tell a user to come visit and judge yourself in Israel, West Bank or Gaza when there's a war going on? You don't like conformity, yet you excuse the conformity and group think in Israel and Zionism? How is Palestinian culture stage red? Do you mean HAMAs or Palestinians in general, and why use Spiral Dynamics to generalize? Also, if there's some collective mental disorder in Palestinians, then does Israel have a collective mental disorder from Nazi Germany's holocaust? Is the cause for Palestinian's collective mental health disorder caused by Israel's actions? How is healthy stage blue better than excess stage orange? How is 'transcend, include and forget.' the right framing, considering you misquoted Ken Wilbur's 'transcend and include.'. Why include 'forget.'? Is there something you want the world to forget about Israel's actions? Why are you personifying Spiral Dynamics colours when this modal is about human values evolution: 'when orange becomes green he remembers again some blue and purple qualities. But now they get mixed with orange to create a new colour but this is not that new except the colours'? Are you conflating Spiral Dynamics with colour theory? If development is when a person realizes things within their subconscious they haven't realized before, how does this help the Israel/Palestine conflict when both sides are in deep denial of and are ignorant of their actions? Also you said it's quite unhealthy in Palestinians, but what about the Israelis taking land from them, and being lead by Zionists and nationalists who are similar to Nazi Germany? Is Israel and Israelis then, by your meaning of development, not developed enough?

@Twentyfirst Just like how Israel says it's okay to take land because the UN said so? Did they? I thought the UN condemned Israel for committing international war crimes and condemned them for taking land?

@zazen Very good post. True about nationalizing, post expansionist and modernized world, and techno-capitalist corporations or big tech companies. Yes, we can use Spiral Dynamics to make sense of the world, but it's important to keep in mind self biases and preferences that plays into how we use Spiral Dynamics. We can have an Israeli here, and a Palestinians there, and let's assume both use Spiral Dynamics. You can bet one side will use and weaponize Spiral Dynamics to justify Israel's evil actions, whilst the other side will also use and weaponize Spiral Dynamics to justify their evil actions. In this hypothetical, it's clear we need other modals of reality, and other groups of authority to adjudicate the usage of those modals, as we should clearly see that a Palestinian using this modal has an agenda and bias to make their side the better and the other the evil, but so does an Israeli have a bias and agenda to make HAMAs and Palestinians like animals in comparison to the saintly Israeli. This is also why we have the legal and court systems of today, and evolve away from tribal revenge killings because when we leave the justice system to the perpetrator and victim that creates cycles of hate that can be generational.

@Karmadhi Yes, bias 101, but actually it's hypocrisy 101.

@Buck Edwards Watch this instead, it's informative and Thomas Sowell does a good job explaining the history of them:

@mr_engineer Reminds me of this debate: They do have a point still, as there are countries with decline in birthrates in Japan and South Korea, high divorce rates from no fault divorce, which leads to single parent households not optimal for raising children, and increase in adoptions. This is a combinatory problem with the fallout of egalitarianism and feminism, but what's not touched upon is predatory capitalism, long toxic work hours and work culture, and neoliberalism and capitalism as an ideology, this part seems more significant along with declining health and fitness, and nutritional value in foods nowadays leading to increases in infertility especially in men. This issue is still based on many developmental factors like Spiral Dynamics stages of development, cognitive and moral development, personality typing/traits, 9 stages of ego development, Architypes by Carl Jung, different states of consciousness and states of being/becoming, Integral Theory's lines of development in society and personal life, ideological beliefs indoctrinated by culture warfare, information and narrative warfare, culture, family upbringing, ad information ecology you intake in through videos, radio, TV, social media, news, and many points that manufactures consent in your mind and informs your self biases and preferences.

This may depend on how you literally or metaphorically interpret this video. I feel like long term it' s immature. Makes sense if he's talking about Self Help as an industry, or the few famous Gurus that made a lot of money, but I don't think it's funny when some people really needed self help material to improve their lives, but that's comedy, something implicitly communicated that's hard to understand: It could also be the case as 75-80% of the world isn't as developed as the USA or UK, so Self Help is found only within developed western countries as well, as most parts of the word is still developing with their different survival needs and challenges to even read and practice self help. Self Help still useful though, and I laughed because it's partly right and partly wrong.

@martins name You're welcome! Yes, spiral development, but also the transformational dilemma from one stage going into another stage. True, I'd agree if it's caliphate interpretations of Islam, but other forms that are less orthodox and more secular is okay, seems like as time goes on Islam is getting more and more secular, Even in Indonesia there's a vast diverse range of religions that coexist with Islam in some of the Islands. Also true that vmemes subvalue of a nation should be for the nation/country first, this happens when in that country's history secularism has spread just enough that a good chunk of population want state and religion separate. Some countries still have some religious ties, and both nation and religion are part of the blue meme, as stage blue is heavily conformist.

@martins name Oh yes, Sweden has a big problem with middle eastern immigration. If I'm not mistaken, I think it was in the past the left party opened up boarders too quickly and started to abide by the EU rules concerning immigration. It also could be a cultural thing in Sweden, as the people there generally are friendly, as friendly as Americans, minus gun ownership, owning Nun Chucks or other policies regarding weapon possession. IMO they went stage green too quickly without a strong stage blue/orange foundation and enforcement arms to protect citizens, otherwise the criminal elements of some stage purple/red valuing immigrants won't feel so bold as to commit sexual assaults underground, in metros or bus stops, it got so bad that they instructed the female population there to wear this 'don't rape me', band. Sorry, but in the southern states of America, if rapey daves made a move on a hottie, and said hottie has a piece, she'd open fire, ask questions later, or someone else has a firearm they'd do something about it. Although yes there'd be crimes with gun ownership, some accidents and some intentional and annual/monthly with school shooters, the population with firearms as a culture, with ways to protect themselves actually self regulate enough that assailants think twice. But with Sweden it's strange... Another factor in my short list I should have added, is also poor diet and a decline in nutrition, in what we eat. Especially for men's health, quality of nutrition impacts sperm count and sperm production, so lower nutrition, sleep quality, fitness will make those younger to older men more infertile than if they took care of their nutritional needs, sleep and fitness then they'd be more fertile. Modern day western foods from industrial agriculture, especially in America is insanely low in quality, so much pesticides which erodes ground soil nutrients that remove trace minerals from veggies and fruits, said pesticides have this cocktail of chemicals that god knows how badly it could effect health and fitness, not to mention GMOs, sugar, salt, fat higher than necessary vitamins and minerals in green varieties and even the meats themselves. Particularly concerning is this estrogen to testosterone imbalance in those meats, dairy products, that make men overtime more effeminate and feminine due to low testosterone, and even some women more masculine due to some foods higher in testosterone.