Farnaby

@Schnaby how do you feel when he tells you that you dress like a prostitute or he doesn't want you to go out? Be careful so you can discern the actual feeling from the narrative that happens after that ("maybe he's right, maybe he's justified to decide what I should and shouldn't do"). As @LordFall said, anyone who brags about how advanced and enlightened they are and especially anyone who dismisses your POV claiming to be somehow better than you is far from being what he claims to be. Now that you've elaborated a bit more on the situation I can only tell you once again that it's textbook emotional abuse and manipulation. I'm sorry but you won't be able to change him or help him by understanding him. He doesn't seem to be at a point where he could question how he acts the way he does. Even at that point, no one can change him, only he can do it if he's willing to put in the effort and he doesn't seem to be at that stage.

No, you shouldn't do anything that doesn't feel right to you. What you're describing is emotional abuse. You can dress how you want to dress and if it triggers him, it's his problem. He's probably insecure and if he considers you're dressing in a "sexy" way (even if you aren't) he gets scared that he may lose you.

I've noticed that I get a little triggered whenever a person introduces him/herself with a disclaimer containing some label like: highly sensitive person, anxious, etc. I have a lot of respect for mental health struggles and I've had to deal with anxiety on and off for years. But something feels weird to me about using that label to introduce yourself to other people. It feels like they are trying to subtly manipulate how you treat them and also not take full responsibility over their actions. I've also noticed that many people use these clinical labels such as generalized anxiety disorder or depression, without having been actually diagnosed by a professional. But even those who have been diagnosed trigger me a bit when they seem to use it as an excuse, especially people who seem to use the label "depression" to justify everything they do/don't do. Sorry for the rant lol Anyone else experienced this?

To me that still sounds like fear of failure, just another manifestation of it. Instead of being afraid of being rejected in the short term you are afraid of screwing it up later. I would explore if you've had those kind of experiences where everything seems to be going right and then something bad happens. IMO, the most important part isn't to determine whether it's fear of failure or of success. It is sitting with that fear and getting to know the part of you that could sabotage the potential relationship. I'm sure it's there for a reason. Usually it's trying to protect you from something or trying to give you some sense of control by creating a predictable pattern. You could have learnt that it hurts less to sabotage yourself in case something goes wrong. Because if you didn't sabotage yourself that rejection/failure (or whatever bad outcome it is) can hit you unexpectedly. Whereas if you sabotage yourself you are somehow prepared for that, or at least you think you are. By getting to know your self sabotaging part you can decide if you still need it and if not you can start working on letting it go. Hope this helps!

I agree that psychedelics are very effective and potent. But precisely because of that potency, therapy is the safer approach. It may take longer but there's less of a chance of getting even more traumatized, which can happen with psychedelics because your defense mechanisms aren't so active. Don't get me wrong, I think psychedelics can be a great tool and often give you important insights faster than therapy. Just be cautious if you decide to use them. Also, they won't cure you, you still need to work on what they show you.

@Shubhanshu san therapy might be worth a shot. It's not the same to use therapeutic techniques by yourself than to have another person who can be present with you and guiding you. Especially since we're talking about something that was learnt in relationships with others, I think it would be beneficial to heal it in a relationship. Group therapy would be great as well.

IME trying to suppress it doesn't really work, you will still feel it. It's like rejecting a part of yourself that's there for a good reason, even if it's a reminiscence from the past. That part tried to protect you from feeling as bad as you did and the best way to do that was triggering shame so you don't expose yourself to those situations. I can relate to that shame and haven't been able to heal it completely. For instance, I still feel the fear of talking to strangers. But by facing that fear over and over again and by accepting it when it appears, it doesn't paralize me as much as it did. I think it's certainly possible to heal it completely, but I guess it takes a long time or maybe I haven't gotten to the root of it. Have you tried therapy? I'm also curious if someone has healed such emotional wounds completely.

I have no personal experience with AA but what you said is what I've heard a lot from AA and similar organizations (the cult like aspect and also treating people like they have an illness that will stay with them for life instead of viewing the addiction as a coping mechanism). Personally, I don't agree with that idea of addiction. I think addiction is an attempt to cope with suffering. If you heal the traumas and suffering that's hidden beneath the addiction, I personally think you can completely overcome the addiction. Sure, some people are more impulsive and will tend to have more trouble with this, but I don't think it's impossible. However, I've also seen many people (myself included, just not with alcohol) lying to themselves through thoughts like: "maybe I can learn to consume X in moderation". While it's true that you may be able to do it, you've got to be careful, because this can easily be the addicted part of yourself that's talking. IMO you need a long period of abstinence before being able to drink in moderation. And you need to discover what you're trying to avoid through the drinking, start facing it and creating healthier habits in your daily life. As I said, I don't know too much about AA but I think they do a good job in helping you stay sober long enough so you can incorporate these helathier habits.

@ShugendoRa what do you mean exactly? Are we talking about going to a nudist beach/coming out of the shower at home or does she intentionally show her boobs and ass to people to cause a certain reaction? I would get pretty triggered with the second option as well. I think it would be good to talk about how you feel when she does that with her. Without blaming or judging, just telling her how you feel and see what happens.

Lol I get what you mean. But to me it's different to be aware of something that I experience (being triggered) vs. self-diagnosing with clinical labels such as depression, bipolar, etc.

@Value you mean without any kind of foreplay? That would probably hurt, let alone get her to orgasm. If you are talking about penetration after foreplay, yes you can make her cum that way. But why do you want to avoid clitoral stimulation? In many sex positions you're going to be stimulating it unvoluntarily anyways through the contact of your pelvis and hers. As others said, you need a lot more than technique. And she also needs to work on her potential insecurities that make it difficult to relax.

@Identity completely normal. At least that has been my experience in every relationship I've been. Maybe the first couple of months in the limerance phase you don't get attracted to other girls, but I don't know any guy in a long term relationship who doesn't find other hot girls hot. It could be that due to how we men function it happens more frequently to us (because we're very visual and women usually need some emotional connection to feel attracted). But I highly doubt it's exclusive to men. My girlfriend finds other guys (in movies or in real life) physically attractive. This can trigger insecurities, sure, but it's a natural thing IMO. Sometimes it's some desire/fantasy that's unfulfilled in the relationship and in that case it could be important to talk about it with your girlfriend. I agree that commitment doesn't mean that you lose your instincts. It means that you value your relationship more than having sex with a random stranger and you don't act out.

@Joel3102 I think he means to integrate your feminine side instead of overcompensating for it like machos do.

Pussy is a nice food

@Leo Gura aren't assholes often hiding a lot of insecurity and just putting up an act? Don't you think it's possible to be nice and warm (not nice in like people pleasing) and also confident, charismatic, etc.?

@Preety_India Oh I see. That makes sense. I think it's different if someone is taking advantage of you, not being honest and making up excuses. That would be a red flag for me as well. I think it doesn't matter if it's a guy or a girl who acts that way. I was talking about the typical situation where two people meet on some dating app or even on a night out or something, they have a date and obviously since they don't know each other well yet, they're not invested in the relationship yet. Actually, being invested 100% from the get go, would be a bit pathological IMO. In this scenario, I don't find it weak or feminine for the guy to not pay for her. As @Meta-Man said, the energy is most important, not the action itself. You can be masculine and not pay and feminine and not pay. Personally, I tend to pay when everything is flowing nicely and also in long-term relationships (although we split quite often or I let her invite me which feels nice now and then). But if it's going nowhere, I would feel dumb if I pay for both of us. It would feel really bad (guilt, shame, etc.) for me if I had to depend economically on my girlfriend (like what you described with your second boyfriend). And I wouldn't want to pay for everything if she's just sitting around all day and not trying to earn some money. Balance is key IMO.

@Preety_India hmm to me that still sounds like stereotypical gender roles. I do think that masculine energy in men and feminine energy in women is essential for attraction. But in my country for example, many feminists are against men paying for the dates. I personally don't agree with them because I think that's a backlash in the opposite direction, where everything remotely traditional is considered "bad". However I don't see why a man should be invested in a relationship that doesn't even exist yet at the first date. That would be like judging a girl who doesn't sleep with the guy on the first date because that means she's not 100% invested. Why should she be? IMO there's nothing wrong with testing the waters before you commit. And that doesn't mean that the guy who won't pay on your first date isn't going to become invested in the relationship. Following your reasoning, any guy who doesn't pay on the first date should be discarded as a potential boyfriend. Seems a bit black/white to me, but to each their own.

Wow I see so much judgement and contradiction in this post. So a man who doesn't pay on the first date is weak and feminine but we want to overcome patriarchy? To me that kind of thinking just perpetuates the very thing feminism is fighting against. Why should a guy be invested in a first date? He often doesn't even know the girl, except from dating apps or whatever. If I already know the girl, like her and would like to have something more serious with her, I'm going to pay, no problem. But if we have never met in person and I'm just getting to know her? Then it will depend on the chemistry during the date. What I would consider "weak" is to always pay just in order to please her or out of fear of rejection.

@Evil Raccoon I don't know you so I apologize if what I'm going to say is completely wrong. I think that when you get a girl to like you, you stop feeling all those uncomfortable feelings and that's why you chase that. I don't really think that's what you deeply desire. It's just something that makes you feel great (like a high from a drug) in the short term. There may be some positive reinforcement coming from friends and culture in general, because we tend to admire people who "get all the chicks".

I think @Preety_India described it pretty well. Why shouldn't you listen to women when you want to know what women want? Sure, everyone has blind spots and may not be aware of what drives his/her behavior. But that's true for all of us. The only thing with which I disagree is that nice guys are always creepy guys who want to exploit. I think a lot of nice guys are just very insecure men who are afraid that they will be seen as jerks if they are honest about their intentions. I'm talking about the kind of guys who end up "friendzoned". Not all of these are creepy exploiters lol.

@Evil Raccoon it's good that you are aware that it masks insecurity. The thing is from your description it seems like you are still using that mask. And that's what girls can intuitively pick up IMO. There are other options beside nice guy and bad boy. It's not black or white. What are you seeking through "getting all the chicks"? Is that what you deeply desire? How do you feel when you don't "get all the chicks"?

Sounds like you're pretending to be a non needy guy, playing bad boy, but it's a mask. Girls (and lots of us men too) can smell these kind of inauthentic acts from miles away. Connect to your authentic way of being and you will eventually get girls to get attracted to you.

If it bothers you, that's clearly something you need to talk about. Personally, I wouldn't like it if my girlfriend expected that from me. I have no problem providing, but the expectation that I have to provide would bother me. It would feel arrogant to me. Alternating is the way to go IMO. It doesn't need to be exactly 50/50 but you shouldn't feel like you are the one who has to pay all the time.

@Espaim Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. I created the thread to see if other people have felt this way when being around people who act this way. But I'm also interested in working on my triggers. For my work it's important to constantly work on these kind of things. I would never treat such a person badly, but I have trouble feeling true empathy for them. I say true empathy, because I can rationally understand their suffering and the function of their symptoms, but can't help feeling annoyed by victim-mentality. @Keyhole Thanks for the in-depth answer and advice. Actually, this person wasn't a friend. She was a class mate so to speak and many of us felt annoyed by her behavior and felt like she constantly needed everyone's attention and pity for her. However, your advice is really helpful because I have felt this in more important personal and work relationships and I think I can make good use of it in those instances Also, thanks for that course suggestion, I'll have a look at it!

I don't like when people try to manipulate me. It feels dishonest. Guilt-tripping is the kind of manipulation I hate the most. Yes. I spend a lot of time reflecting on how I act and why I do the things I do. When there's a conflict I always rewind what happened in my head to see how I may have contributed to it. Probably. But I usually don't feel comfortable when everyone's attention is on me. That makes me anxious. Definitely. But I'm usually clear and honest about my intentions. I don't think I often manipulate people. I used to do that more in the past, even playing victim sometimes. I don't do that anymore.