whoareyou

No that is not what I was saying. I never said that the early experiences made no difference. I was talking about a specific nuance, which you still don't seem to understand. I don't understand what is your problem. Maybe go and take a break, I am asking legit questions here.

@Leo Gura In that case, do you consider yourself to be liberated? Do you consider "liberation" or "enlightenment" to be the end of psychological suffering? If you stopped using 5-MEO or any psychedelics at this point, would you be able to remain at the level of consciousness at which you are now? It's one thing to have many deep insights, but another thing is to embody/integrate those things. I am deeply curious.

@Leo Gura Since I haven't done it yet, I would be curious to try plugging it. Could you provide a link to a complete guide on how to plug it? I am sure you posted it somewhere, but I can't seem to find it.

I totally agree with you. As I suspected, we were just arguing semantics. It's just when you talk to most people, you have to be conscious of what their definitions are - to ensure that everyone understands each other.

I also do 10mg, but I vape. It is a VERY strong dose for me. For vaping, 5mg is considered to be moderate, and 10mg is already considered to be strong. Which is why I think that with vaping, you might get more out of 5-MEO.

Once you vape a few times, you can also find the perfect dose. The process is similar. What is your regular dose for freebase in mg?

Fair enough. I personally have been vaping it and I found that it works very well for me. For vaping, it helps if you have done it once with a sitter or if you first start with lower doses. I have a sense that vaping would be even more powerful for you, so looking forward to your report.

Would you be willing to vape it (Freebase) at least once? I am still surprised you haven't done it even a single time and consider plugging to be the best method, when people like Martin W Ball claim that vaping it is the most superior method.

@Inliytened1 There certainly is a point, when you begin to notice a permanent shift, and have a knowing that you are "liberated". This is according to the people who went through the entire process. Having a breakthrough experience, and feeling that you are enlightened - and then coming back down, is not the same thing. Which is why they refer it to as " enlightenment experience". I am not saying that those are pointless or that they somehow don't have any value, but when it comes to describing certain things, it's better to be very clear, as people have different definitions and make different distinctions. I agree with you, but when it comes to describing experiences, I certainly have a different approach, and so do a lot of other people.

@Leo Gura This is exactly what I meant ^^ Why do you not make this distinction, when majority of other spiritual teachers do? This doesn't just apply to psychedelics, but also to retreats. Your definition of "enlightenment" becomes vastly different from everyone else. If you are going to go this way, then you should at least explain this to people. I am not saying that you are wrong, or that the other way is right - but majority of other people, including Martin W ball - make a distinction between "enlightenment experience" and "enlightenment". To me, enlightenment = liberation, meaning it's a permanent shift. An enlightenment experience, would be a temporary shift.

@Inliytened1 You are putting words into my mouth. You are completely confused in the web of concepts. We are talking about apples and oranges here, about different things. You still did not understand the original point that I was trying to make. It was very simple - but you decided to to make it very complex.

No, I do understand what you are saying, but all you are doing, is getting stuck in the concepts. You are theorizing too much. Whenever you talk about "enlightenment", it will always be dualistic. I have experienced everything that you describe, but I don't confuse "enlightenment experiences" for "enlightenment" itself.

English must be your second language, or your reading comprehension skills are very low. I have never said that there is no more growing, or those realizations have no value. You are confusing "enlightenment experience" for "enlightenment" itself, which is the reason why you use the word "enlightenment" the way you do. I will not waste anymore time or effort trying to explain this to you, it's like hitting my head against the wall.

@Inliytened1 You did not watch the video carefully enough, that is not what he said. Those things that you call "realizations" are "enlightenment experiences", and not "enlightenment". What I am trying to say, is that enlightenment is something that is permanent, not temporary. Those "enlightenment experiences" are very valuable though, and before you have the actual "enlightenment", you will probably have a LOT of those realizations.

@electroBeam Why do you need a guru? LEO has provided you more than enough information, to be able to do this work by yourself. I don't understand the need for a guru or for a community. You have also spent a shit ton of time on this forum, what are you doing man?

I have heard a lot of those "research chemical companies" sell a lot of fake stuff. So it's hard to tell if you have the actual 5-meo or not.

You are not grasping what I am saying because you are too focused on the semantics and "absolute" vs "relative". Regardless if you used psychedelics or not, those were what is referred to as "enlightenment experiences", instead of actual "enlightenment". I did not make this up. By "enlightenment", I am referring to a permanent change/shift, after ALL of those "realizations". You can also call this "liberation". If you use a different set of definitions to describe these things, you will confuse and mislead a lot of people. Watch this, this is what I am referring to:

That is not enlightenment! You are falling into a trap, mistaking an enlightenment experience for enlightenment itself. A lot of people do this during psychedelic experiences. Martin W Ball writes describes this in-depth in his books. LEO really needs to clarify the terminology that he uses, as I can see this confuses a lot of people.

When it comes for you to communicating and teaching people, it's a clear distinction that you have to make. Like I said, I have noticed that you are using a different definition for the word "enlightenment" than other people. There is a big difference between "enlightenment experience" and "enlightenment" itself. What you experience with 5-MEO DMT, is "enlightenment experience" and not "enlightenment". When that realization becomes permanent, is when it becomes enlightenment. Martin W Ball has said exact same thing. To make it clear, all of those "awakening/enlightenments" that you experienced, were breakthrough experiences, but not liberation/enlightenment. If you don't make this distinction, you will confuse a lot of people and they will not know what you mean. I was confused as well and now it makes sense.

What exactly do you mean when you say you "realized" it? Do you mean that you have this permanent knowing 24/7? If so, then why do you claim that you are not "enlightened"?

You clearly have not done enough work, based on the amount of nonsense you posted in this thread. The post about Sadhguru made me think you might be trolling. I specifically said that you can see who clearly is "NOT", but you can't really determine who "IS". To really see who is "not", you would have had to do a lot of consciousness work.

if old mind matters continue to function, it means that they have not been dissolved and there was no "enlightenment". There is a huge difference between "enlightenment experiences" and "enlightenment". We need to stop using the word "enlightenment" so cheaply. Either it's there or it's not. In fact, dropping the word "enlightenment" all together would benefit a lot of people.

The more work you do on yourself, the more sensitive you become to other people's aura/energies. Thus, it's pretty easy to spot fakes. I definitely noticed this.

This is true, that you have the ability to spot falsehood easier. In this case, you would be able to tell who is definitely NOT enlightened. I agree with you that sadhguru feels genuine and Mooji does not.

@Leo Gura This is a problem imo which I already mentioned. Different people have different definitions of "enlightenment" . For you, you seem to break it down to many different stages. For me, either you are liberated or you are not. Imo - Embodiment is the single biggest indicator. If you haven't spent time with that person, you will never know if they truly embody it or not - as it's pretty to pick and choose to show a side of yourself on video or put on an act in front of the crowd. Imagine if you LEO, saw another LEO, but under a different name. Based on how you define and view "enlightenment" , you would think that person LEO would be "enlightened". Yet you claim yourself that you are not "enlightened". Which is why, unless if you have met a person in life and actually know them - it is impossible to know and better to reserve any judgments. A more honest answer would be "I don't know". This doesn't just apply to Mooji but applies to other people as well.