whoareyou

You may see what I am saying, but you don't see how significant it is. Calling people "devils" and "low consciousness" without providing any reasoning is not effective, and also counterproductive. It is counterproductive, because in a lot situations, it will come off as threatening to the ego. It also comes off as arrogant and disrespectful. And at the end, you won't get your message across. The goal is to deliver your message in the most effective way possible. The language that you choose plays a huge role in this, especially as you move into the higher stages and try to explain your POV to people you perceive to be in "lower stages". If you are not aware of this or have lost sight of this, it means you are not as "conscious" or "aware" as you think you are.

LOL. Calling people "devils", "low consciousness", etc is not effective or helpful in anyway. How do you not see this?

@Key Elements I wasn't referring to you specifically in my post. I was referring to what I see in general now across this forum. @Zizzero You totally nailed it.

@Key Elements @Andreas @Serotoninluv I agree with Andreas, and a few users pointed out the same thing, regarding LEO and few others here: A lot of the time when someone disagrees with them or shares a different POV, they automatically call him a "devil", "low consciousness", etc without explaining their POV nor providing the reasoning. It is disrespectful and not helpful in anyway to anyone. In this thread, LEO still hasn't responded to my points, just repeated his same old mantra and hasn't replied since. The behavior of calling people a "devil" whenever you disagree with them does sound like a "cultish" behavior to me.

@Leo Gura The irony here, is that you are using Truth, Goodness, Love, Consciousness, and Harmony to justify your leftist ideology. That is exactly what the devil does. The key word here is ideology, in this case to be specific it's the leftist one. You have a lot of blind spots, which you haven't examined yet due to your built up arrogance. Instead of saying a bunch of repetitive shit (which doesn't say much), explain your actual POV on the subject, and address some of the points that were brought up, which you disagree with.

Again spewing some nonsense, instead of explaining your POV. Anyone that you disagree with, you just call a "devil", "stage X", "you are not conscious", etc. This is very surprising to see, coming from someone who claims to be as "conscious" as yourself.

You provided 0 actual arguments. As always, very arrogant and not open minded to consider the possibility that you could possibly be wrong. Maybe you are the one that needs to grow some more and become conscious of your deep leftist bias.

You are repeating a lot of leftist dogma IMO. Why do we need to make up $30 trillion? ( a number you pulled out of your ass, as there is no way to actually estimate this)There is a big difference to what it is today and what it was many years ago. There are more opportunities today than ever before for them. Until the victim mindset and narrative is gone - nothing major will change, no matter the monetary amount. You are not helping the African Americans by reinforcing the victim mindset. Read again what I said in the previous post.

Can you list some of the system inequalities that you are talking about here? My point is - It is much easier to play the victim and use it as an excuse to sit on the couch and not do anything. There are plenty of people doing that. This is what I mean by playing the victim. If you always told by everyone around you that you are a victim - that will only reinforce the victim mindset. It is very profitable for the Democratic Party to repeat this mantra and keep African Americans in the victim mindset, all in order to get their votes. Those Black Americans who were born in the last 20 years in US, still have more opportunities than the people who are living in 3rd world countries. It is not even close. If you observed closely enough, you will see that the Africans that come from Africa and immigrate to US, and the African Americans who were born in US are very different. The biggest difference is the mindset, and thus why you see the ones from Africa having such higher quality of lives. There are things that you can't change, and there are things that you can. Why not do the best with what you have, instead of playing the victim and give yourself excuses to not take action?

Does it play a difference if you are naturally more of an extrovert than an introvert? And don't you think human beings are social species, than on the form level - relationships are crucial to a fulfilling life?

LEO, I think you may have a really huge left wing bias. Here is another perspective to consider: Maybe it's not about the money but about consciousness and mentality in general? Maybe it's enough of the victim mentality? There are black Americans like Candace Owens who are actually supporting Trump and don't see themselves as victims. The Democractic Party sure likes to put ideas into the heads of the Black Americans that they are powerless victims, in order to get their votes. Enough is enough of victimhood - those Black Americans today living in US today are NOT victims. Also, I am not a fan of Trump, but I can clearly see how the mainstream media trashed him, and how it backfired on them. To say that he is portrayed accurately by the media is very laughable.

Regardless of your friend, you shouldn't be in your current relationship. You are doing a huge disservice to yourself and to your current girlfriend, because your heart is clearly not in there and you are just there for comfort. After breaking up with your girlfriend, proceed to ask your friend out, and be okay with losing your friendship or that friendship not being the same as it was. This is what men do, and boys don't.

Reincarnation and hell are both illusions of the mind. Those illusions are parts of the obstacle that keeps you from realizing that you are immortal or god. To put it simply, there is no one to reincarnate and no one to go to hell.

Elliot can still be useful, especially for young men in their early 20s. Many have grew out without a father and Elliot is willing to take on that role. Yes he became a bit ideological, but if you look past that - you can find a lot of gems. He speaks a lot of truth.

You are immortal when you know that you are GOD. Martin knows he is GOD, which makes him immortal.

@outlandish Yes and this is why even some non-duality teachers don't use the word "enlightenment" and use "liberation" instead. Sure in the beginning it could be used as a motivator to get somebody interested, but would have to get dropped pretty soon afterwards, which is not easy to do. Imo the best source for motivation usually involves intense suffering or authentic curiosity for deeper truth. Just plan curiosity without a promised reward at the end. I agree that we should drop the whole "enlightenment" thing, and instead strive to live more conscious lives. So don't seek, but bring intensity and awareness as much as possible into everyday life. And measure your "success" by how conscious you are everyday and how you deal with challenges - as those are the ultimate test to how conscious one is. Psychedelics, self-inquiry, retreats, would actually be way more effective without having an "enlightenment" goal. The other issue like you said, is with seeking - a lot of people end up doing too much mental masturbation. They are caught up in concepts, and don't get much direct experience.

@Dumb Enlightened Yes those are 2 extremes. You can tell when it's genuine or not - using your intuition and observation of how congruent is the person's behavior in the long run. You can also tell from experience, by seeing different teachers and how they are. You will know who is being authentic and who is not, when you become authentic yourself. Simple as that.

@outlandish Yes it is extremely challenging, and nobody is perfect - and I like I said he has done a lot of amazing things. I disagree and would say that he doesn't always maintain his humility. Some other users stated that as well. A lot of the times when he gets criticized, and responds - he goes in a pure defense mode and justifies why he is right (without considering the possibility of being wrong). Another user even in this thread posted how he called some guy a "sheep", because he disagreed with his opinion. One of the traps of this process, is it is very easy to build up a "spiritual" EGO. I also disagree with your interpretation of his "Impossible levels of consciousness were accessed that few human beings have ever experienced." - If you read his notes from the retreat, and you see how arrogant some of his writings sound, you will see it in context. Take a note on the usage of word "impossible" here. Shutting up and not talking about it would be much harder than talking about it. If you have had "crazy awakening" experiences yourself with 5-MEO or other strong psychedelics, you would know that the first thing you would want to do is talk about it. Yup more ego. I know this purely from my own experience. I am glad that you brought up an analogy with Olympic athletes. LEO comes from a self-development background, so it is natural for him to apply the same type of process for "enlightenment". The thing is, it works for every field but "enlightenment"! Because "enlightenment" is not something that can be achieved, or reached. If you think that you do X and Y - and some day in the future you will become "enlightened", that day will NEVER come. Because everything happens in this present moment, as cliche as it sounds. So what you will end up doing is chasing your own tail. Constructive criticism and not following anyone blindly is very vital. We can love, and appreciate what the person has done, but when the situation calls for it, to give our honest opinions.

@outlandish This is not what is being debated or discussed here. Why do you not read before making a post? We are not having a debate of weather Leo is enlightened or not. It's Leo's approach and perception of what is "enlightenment" and the way of getting there. Leo states that "enlightenment" is something that can be achieved in the future, that would take 1000s of hours of practice. Imo, that is called chasing your own tail. Leo is chasing his own tail(seeking) and encourages people to do the same. Watch the video by Sadhguru in OP. On top of that(after the latest retreat), he made some ridiculous claims such as reaching levels of consciousness few humans ever did, etc. To anyone experienced, they can detect Ego at play right away. This is all connected in the bigger picture and a good example for anyone on this path who is seeking.

I agree, I had the exact same realization and been trying to tell this to Leo. Enlightenment shouldn't be a goal, or something that needs to be achieved in the future - as that is an illusion and will never come. Chasing your own tail by Sadhguru is one of the best analogies that I have seen, which is why I loved the video that you posted. This is also the reason why some teachers avoid using the word "enlightenment" and use "liberation" instead.

It is very relevant. Read all of the posts, and try to really see what some of us are saying here. The point here is very nuanced, and unless you had some realizations yourself, you may not see what is being said here. I agree that the title of the thread could be improved, but a "hardcase" is very fitting.

When you have enough experience, you will be able to detect ego in very subtle ways. This applies to all humans. I am not trying to find out his "level of consciousness" here. From what I remember, in the notes or on this forum - he made the claim that he is more advanced or something similar to that, than even some yogis with 40 years of practice. This was after his "13 back to back awakenings video". If you observe yourself and others enough, you will see that the ego always like to compare itself to others. Here is another one: "It's been a crazy 29 days of consciousness work, featuring 13 profound awakening experiences — each one deeper than the last. Impossible levels of consciousness were accessed that few human beings have ever experienced." This is pure EGO here, like how do you not notice this?

I don't put anyone on a pedestal and don't recommend for you to do either. Believe it or not, LEO is not the only that is having "awakening experiences" on this forum and different insights. Some of us are also evolving and learning, and can see some things that others don't. You can appreciate and respect the person, while providing constructive criticism at appropriate times.

@Jack Walter Leon I noticed exact same thing, and you nailed it - he feels superior to others and thus he doesn't take constructive criticism well. He preaches "radial open mindedness" but doesn't seem to be open to the idea that he could possibly be wrong with some things. Over the years, you can see how his "spiritual EGO" has built up. If you watched one of his latest videos on the "13 back to back awakenings" and saw the notes that he wrote in the retreat - you can clearly see how the EGO hijacked the experience. From the video, I get the feeling that he feels like he came back from some crazy mission, and trying to enlightened the "sheep" who have no idea he just experienced. One of his favorite phrases "you don't understand", "but you don't understand" with a smile. There is a difference between "hating" and "constructive criticism". The best teachers are the ones that also learn from the students, and don't let their ego get in the way. Leo has done a lot of amazing stuff, but in the process got caught in a trap of his own Ego.

@OmniYoga You are 100% spot on. Exactly what I have been saying all along - Leo is trapped in the seeking, and there are thousands of people just like him. The problem is that a lot of people follow LEO dogmatically and don't bother to question what he says - even though he specifically stated to not do so. He encourages seeking (because he is in seeker mode himself) and in turn a lot of people do the same. Dropping the seeking can be extremely difficult process - it would mean that those people have wasted years on chasing their own tail and would be a huge blow to their "spiritual" EGO. The question is, how long more would it take for LEO to realize this? And after this realization, how would his teachings evolve?