whoareyou

@Leo Gura , still waiting for you to address this. This thread has been spammed, so would like for you to be able to see this.

Stop spamming this thread with nonsense. Look at the quotes to which my response was to.

You guys are totally clueless when it comes to understanding how cults and "mind control" works. Watch LEO's videos on cults.

Because most people would be silenced and would be scared to come out. He also has a lot of followers, who would defend him till the end. That's how most cults are able to operate without any repercussions. Did you see some of the replies in this thread? People would just assume the victims are the crazy. Imagine being one of the victims.

Do you understand that she is not the only person? Besides her, you can find a lot of reports online - and all have similarities to what she has said and the reporter wrote on that article. I have provided links to some of the stories in this thread. Do you understand why the people who were abused, choose to stay anonymous? Do you understand how hard it would be to gather sufficient "evidence" in this case? Why do other spiritual teachers don't have anything like this about them? Regarding rape, I used it as an anology. When rape victims come out, do you usually say the same thing - it's not sufficient evidence? You treat that situation differently. Of course we can't know 100%, and I could be wrong, but there is certainly a lot of red flags.

Why do you automatically assume that she is "batshit crazy"? Do you say the same about the women who come out after they been raped? If she was an actual victim of abuse, it would not be surprising to see her be irritated. What she said in this video, is BEYOND sexual allegations. She states that: 1) There is a clear abuse of power. He is a predator who preys on the women under the pretext of "spiritual master" 2) People are manipulated and silenced 3) It's a cult - they do a lot of cultish things there all the time 4) Women are told that if they have sex with him, their awakening would come quicker 5) Get out while you can 6) His non-dual teachings are the TRUTH, but he doesn't have a monopoly on the truth. What she says is very reasonable, doesn't actually come off as crazy to me, and seems genuine. Watch your own projections - you could very well be wrong.

@Leo Gura What about this video? Please watch the entire video from the mark that I linked you to: Tanya White has been one of this followers for a very long time, and confirms lot of those VERY SERIOUS accusations here on video: You can confirm that it's his real follower and not some fake, trying to slander: The video seems to be very genuine, I don't see any reason why this woman would just make this up. IF those things happen to be true, do you realize why it would be hard to report on them, when most of the abused victims are silenced and they fear for their lives? This is a real serious issue, which goes far beyond this particular "teacher".

@Leo Gura Going back to what we discussed, terminology that you use makes a big difference. It is especially important when it comes to discussing deeper and more nuanced topics. Why is it better to use terms "conscious" vs "unconscious" instead of "moral" vs "immoral"? Because for us, morality already goes out of the window, as it's based on "right" vs "wrong", which is very relative. You can have 2 cases, where both people commit an action others may view as "immoral", yet one person may do it "consciously" and the other may do it "unconsciously". In our example, IF ALL the allegations that Mooji faces would all be true, I would view those actions probably as "unconscious". Why? Because of distortion of truth. This would mean that he may have had "awakening experiences", but obviously not anywhere close to being "liberated"/"enlightened". And I am not referring to sex here. Distorting the truth is what EGO does, and where highly unconscious actions come from. You would probably agree with me that "authenticity" is a quality that liberated human beings have. Which is why, I would say that he has had "awakening experiences", but he is probably not "liberated"/"enlightened".

@Leo Gura I am not only here to learn from you, but from everyone else on this forum as well(who puts in the work into learning). I have learned a lot from you, but with certain things I tend to disagree with. I don't you view as a "teacher", nor do I put on you on a pedestal. I believe that you are not only here to teach, but to learn as well, am I right? The way I see it, is that we are all students and teachers here. Reading my last post now, I understand that I may have came off aggressive or arrogant, and that was not my intention. I apologize for that. I have no intention of trying to "school" you, I just voiced the way I see things as honestly as I could. Constructive criticism is important though, and I am sure you appreciate it. And that is the difference between cults, and actualized - I don't have to agree with everything you say. Weather if I end up learning from you or you end up learning from me, it's a win-win for everybody.

It's not an assumption, it's my guess, based on my own experiences with doing a lot 5-MEO, other psychedelics, meditation, etc. In this case I can say that your assumption is dangerous. And so have I, except you don't see me making videos about it, or field reports. You are not the only one that is working with entheogens here. Unless you have completely liberated yourself, this does not mean much. I did not define enlightenment, because it cannot be defined. All I said was that probability is certainly way lower for somebody doing things which you view as "highly immoral". You see, I don't view actions as "moral" or "immoral". I view them as "conscious" vs "unconscious". Majority of actions people view as "highly immoral" come from unconsciousness, which pretty much don't happen at highest level of consciousness. How you view "history" is very relative, and does not say much about "enlightenment" here. If you think so otherwise, all I got to tell you, is that you got a LOT more work to do in your own journey. No amount of studying or reading will make you understand how it really is, unless if you go through the entire process yourself and will have a experience. It is your biggest blessing and a curse - the amount of studying that you do. Like I told you in the past, I disagree with what you consider "enlightenment", and how you determine certain individuals to be "enlightened" vs "not enlightened". Also, your usage of the terminology such as "enlightenment" and "awakenings" are very confusing and misleading to most people. If I was you, I would drop that terminology, and just use "liberated", "not liberated". Either the full thing or nothing. What you refer to as "awakenings" on psychedelics, I would refer to as "break through experiences".

And like I mentioned, most people who were abused, actually wish to stay anonymous. (people in this thread were asking for sources LOL) Due to fear, a lot of people do not bother reporting people like Mooji. Here is an example from the cult forum, where you can clearly see this:

According to him, he is not enlightened. He has not gone through the stages of enlightenment that he is talking about here. You are once again throwing that word around very loosely.

I didn't say that it prescribes a specific way of behavior. I am saying, that with enlightenment, your behavior automatically adjusts. What you refer to then is Zen devilry, a half ass enlightenment? Why are you so sure that your understanding of "enlightenment" is more accurate than mine? I am not saying that one has to be Christ-like, but the things that Mooji have allegedly done, are FAR from what a "conscious" person looks like. I equate enlightenment with highest levels of consciousness, and at highest level of consciousness I don't see those actions ever happening. Unless you have gone through all the stages yourself, there is NO WAY that you can know this to be true. All you really have is an idea, which you perceive to be a certain way, which you think you have a very good understanding of, when you actually don't. (We are all in the same boat) If you don't know, then why talk about it like it's a fact?

@mandyjw This terminology would make more sense. Yes you can use your mind to make a bomb or cure cancer - the difference is the level of consciousness. If someone is at a very high level of consciousness, people refer to them as "awake" or "enlightened". Which is why words like "enlightenment" should not be used very loosely, as many people on this forum do. @abrakamowse If you can use "enlightenment" to make devilish things, then it's not an "enlightenment" because to make devilish things requires you to be unconscious. You are using the word "enlightenment" too loosely, just like LEO.

Except what you call "awakening" and "enlightenment" are not TRUE awakenings and enlightenments. If you are high on power, this means that you are unconscious, and if you are unconscious - it means that you are asleep. There is a difference between getting the taste of awakening and actually having an awakening. True enlightenment doesn't give you anything you don't already have. You used to be a Christian, so you probably understand when Jesus warned about false prophets and masters. The ones that you think are "enlightened" and "awakened" but they are not. Mooji is a good example of that.

According to some reports, one of them which I linked to you already, a person described a situation where Mooji forced a woman to be his prostitute. It is more than just using fame/status to get easy sex, it is abusing the position of an "enlightened master", and twisting spiritual truth to get what he wants. For example, telling a student that their awakening would come quicker if they have sex with him is a SERIOUS abuse. If that is the case, then your definition of "enlightenment" is a very loose one. To teach what he is teaching is not rocket science - you LEO can easily teach the stuff that he is teaching. We are not talking about moral perfection here. We are talking about serious abuse and causes a huge amount of suffering to other people. In order to do those things, you have to be unconscious to a huge degree, and that certainly would exclude enlightenment in my book. "Enlightenment" and "morality" are distinct, but they overlap as the person gets closer to enlightenment. Imo, you really need to re-evaluate your definition of "enlightenment" and who you view as "enlightened".

By "loose sexual activity", do you include prostitution and abuse of his power, for him to have sex? Do you understand what some of the sexual allegations are about? He tells some of the women that if they sleep with him, they would get their "awakening" quicker. And sure enough, why would they question the enlightened master? Why are you not suspicious of his enlightenment? How can you know it's legit? Why do you question the reporting, but not his enlightenment? Didn't Jesus give warnings about false prophets and masters? The ones that you think are "enlightened", but it's just a devil that is hiding and abuses his power.

We can't know 100% for sure, but I am willing to give the reporting the benefit of the doubt, for these reasons: 1) Mooji has faced sexual allegations for years. This is not the only thing out there. For example here is a big thread where other women are coming out: https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/88nf2l/mooji_metoo_movement/ Here is also a cult forum where people share VERY disturbing reports about him: https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,135827,page=9 2) Using intuition and inference from what I see on the videos - you just don't see those kinds of things from some other known Gurus.

@Mikael89 If all you can take away from the videos is "someone is performing Bhakti yoga by kissing the feet of God", then you got much bigger problems to deal with.

The videos are alone enough of any proof that you would need. How do you expect the investigative journalist to post all the sources, if the sources wish to be anonymous? A lot of people are in fear for their lives, and you expect them to be outed? You apparently missed one: Here is one that was linked in the article: So you find this to be reputable but not what I posted? LOL.

What is wrong with the donate button? This is not just some hit piece written by a hater. Be Scofield is an investigative journalist who has been doing this work for over 9 years. And I might add, has done a pretty great job at it. I have nothing against actualized.org, it is no near close to a cult.

@PatternsFormThought @Leo Gura Patterns actually made a very solid point which I mentioned many times already. Too many people in the spiritual community are seeking "enlightenment", which will never come - it's just an idea. "Enlightenment" is not something that you can achieve. Being in the present moment, and seeing reality as it is, without illusion of the self permanently - is enlightenment. Too many people have "enlightenment" ideology, which ironically keeps them from "enlightenment".

This is not just a cult we are talking about. This is an abusive cult, that brings a lot of suffering and exploits spiritual seekers. Read the god man article and contemplate! Like I said, this is a good case study, that may help other naive people from falling a prey to such individuals.

Actions speak louder than words. It's one thing to say the "right" things on camera, and another thing - is to actually believe in what you are saying and living your life according to that way. It all comes down to authenticity. This is what this work is all about. Given all that, yes his advice could still be helpful, you can learn from anybody in this world. But he should be held accountable, and not worshiped by spiritual seekers. He is an example of somebody abusing the truth to get his own egoic needs met. What makes you think he is "enlightened"? Who told you that he is "enlightened"? Read the article again and make your own conclusions.

@Arhattobe Except this is not just unhealthy dynamics. There is enough evidence out there to say that it's an abusive cult that is run by a corrupt (mentally sick) individual, disguising himself under a "spiritual teacher". Why is this important? Because there are other individuals out there who are doing the same. There are too many so called "experts" out there who don't embody what they preach in their everyday life. How much more evidence would you need, to see that individual for who he is? (and not some "legit non-dual" guru). It's hard for people to accept these things, because they used to watch videos of that person on youtube videos, and have painted a picture of some "legit guru". When the evidence comes pouring in, they would rather not break that illusion, as the dominos would fall, and that would mean other "gurus" that they watched, could also be fake.