roopepa

I'm sure humour is some kind of a part or a feature of true nature. Sometimes it's just too good to be anything less than divine.

I've had visions too. A few years ago on the new years eve I was partying, and somewhere around midnight got a headache. Went to sleep a bit earlier than others. Lying in bed with closed eyes, I was suddenly thrown "out the body" to space outside earth. In a few seconds I traveled to a distant galaxy so far away that it is propably impossible for a 'normal human mind' to comprehend. There, I saw a complex multi-dimensional geometrical shape made of purple light. And it was not simply just a shape, but a living being. She greeted me and gave me her name. The name is impossible to translate into our language, and I don't remember it very well, but I can say that it started with something that is similiar with our letter G. She felt very familiar. Something there felt like home.

Your example sucks. First of all, SD models values. Stage Turquoise does not value personal power, cult mentality, racism or murder. Second, a psychedelic state is not a developmental stage. Mystical experiences are interpreted at the base-line developmental stage of the individual. For example, no stage Yellow person would think after a trip "now that I experienced God and I know everything is love, I go and murder people". Manson was Red. He used his mystical experiences a stage Red person would, for personal power. He used his mystical understanding to avoid responsibility, yet it never prevented him from manipulation and murder.

Yeah me too. I don't really care about that stuff anymore. I don't think that 'states' or 'awakenings' are what any of us are really looking for, they are not Home. In fact, a few days ago I wrote 'forgetting spirituality' onto my dreamboard. What I've been calling "spirituality" has just been a mountain range of bullshit. It's just stressful to be seeking and waiting for these 'states and insights'. You just feel the unturth of it. It seems that life is way more simple than the mind often thinks. I don't think you need books or teachers or 'spirituality', at least after a certain point. It's become quite clear to me that Truth takes care of itself.

So simple, so obvious, yet this blew my mind.

Do you want to be comfortable and not distressed? I understand why you sometimes 'want' to see those things. I've felt it too. Seeing another beheaded, shot in the head, tortured... It shocks you, it changes you. It shifts your perspective. Sometimes it feels kind of good to see things from different perspectives. When you see another getting their throat cut open with a chainsaw, your own problems don't seem so bad anymore. One thing that I find valuable after seeing these things, is that now I really do know that I don't want anyone to experience that. Not even the killers themselves. Every time I remember I have a role to play here with others, every time I think and talk politics, I keep in mind what's at stake here. We have the power to change things. We can build a better world. Truly do your best to learn how to make things better. Read books. Watch documentaries. Vote the right people. Study all there is to study. And remember the guy who got beheaded. Let yourself feel the fear and compassion.

Yeah. Of course. When I say "Turquoise" I refer to the altitude of development in which stages of different lines correlate with each other, with SD Turquoise. My bad for using poor language. When I talk about a developmental altitude I am not talking about a person who may or may not have different lines at different stages. I am talking about the altitude.

Leo and Ken Wilber. Turquoise is late vision-logic, holistic thinking and aware of ego, yet has not transcended ego. In Susanne R. Cook-Greuters model, Ego-aware (6, Alchemist) correlates with SD Turquoise. This is not ego transcendence. Turquoise does not transcend the mind, emotion, "life", "experience" and "world".

Turquoise is not the highest stage. In Spiral Dynamics it is, but there are other similiar models. Turquoise is not 'free of ego', nor 'enlightened' in a way Nahm, Sadhguru, Spira, Osho or others like that are usually recognized as. Ken Wilber would call this Tier 3 (Indigo or beyond), aware of Self, aware of Oneness. Turquoise is holistic, Indigo is unitive. Turquoise is the later integral stage, late vision-logic, peeking into transpersonal (Tier 3) states and stages time to time. My wild guess would be that Leo is centered here. Turquoise 'has' suffering, has ego, has problems, but it's far less identified and now goes with the flow. Turquoise is only beginning to peek into what we may call mystical nature when in everyday 'baseline' consciousness. Turquoise recognizes the mind and emotions as objects of awareness, but the subject/object duality is not yet let go. Yet, this is "just" a model, and I have no idea what I'm talking about. I am lost. Nothing to see here.

I'm reading a book which heavily leans on the teaching of the course. I have not read ACIM itself, even though it's waiting on my bookself. It has this weirdly strong 'energy' to it and I'm not sure what to think of it. I feel like there is something extremely powerful going on there and I fear it a little. I know it's kind of stupid to ask anyone stuff like this, since it really seems to be the case that I can't in full honesty rely on any other source than my own authority. But here it is: It seems that the course explains the dream/reality in a very different manner than most other teachings. As I understand it, the course says that the dream/world/sensory experience is due to a single "thought" in the mind of God/Oneness, which is basically that of being separate. The thought of being separate is the "sin" and feels "guilt" for losing the unity with God. This then causes the Mind to divide itself to multiple parts, even though it never actually happens, but only seems like it. The course says that it is the guilt that creates the world, sensory experience itself, by projecting it's own guilt and fear on "the other", hence creating a world to "hide" in. Something in this 'explanation' resonates a lot, though it brings a weird anxiety. I always had this idea that the world would be a playground, a place for Love's expression, rather than a projection of this "guilt" or something. I don't know if it's just my own interpretation, but this seems very different from what I've heard others say. How come it is still possible for the world to exist, or for me to "create my own reality", if the guilt is recognized and made undone? I'm just weirded out on how different this seems to be from other sources. It makes it seem like Oneness/awakening would be just total nothingness and that's it. No creation, no 'experience', no fun and games in the dream world, no expression. Why do I feel like I'm missing on something super obvious and being really stupid?

Are you conscious of absolute truth right now? Are you awake? If not... If you believe you are deluded, not "awake to the truth"... Why do you believe any thought, teaching, map, idea, previous experience or basically anything about spirituality/awakening whatsoever? You just said that you are deluded, that delusion is all you know, your only "refrence point". You said that you are not conscious of Truth. Why do you think any of your beliefs/thoughts has anything to do with Truth then? In other words... Is the belief about "you not being awake" not delusion then? It seems that I've been creating my own delusion.

Oh my god.

Why are we "here", why is there suffering, why do we experience certain things, why life seems to work for some people and others not, why it seems like there is a beginning and an end? @Leo Gura This one you would find interesting, I think. What is life? Like really, what is this? Literally everything in my life seems to be about life. Weird.

Exactly.

Why is consciousness "stuck" in a certain state?

Just a thought... Maybe what ACIM refers to as "guilt" can also be called "denial". Ringing any bells?

The book is from a finnish author. I don't think it has been translated.

Is "me lacking the proper state of consciousness" not a story?

@Leo Gura The book I'm reading gives a map like this: 'Before' any duality, there is Oneness/God/Infinity. Because it is infinite, there must also occur "a thought" of "what if there is something else than all that is". This resulted in the first division, that of a Big Mind and a small mind. The second division is the small mind dividing into "the right mind" (holy spirit) and "wrong mind" (ego). The third division is when the ego recognizes that it separates from Oneness and thinks the separation "actually happened" and is now separate from God. This results in fear and guilt that is so huge that the ego thinks it deserves to be punished somehow, even though any separation has never occured. This creates a division of guilt/punishment. An image of a condemning god. Now, the ego identifies itself as 'being guilty'. The fourth division is body/world, where the ego "hides" because it fears the god's punishment. All the suffering, terror and chaos is due to this 'forgotten' or 'unconscious' guilt we feel and the fear of a punishment we think we deserve. We project our fear/guilt outside, creating (or perhaps identifying with) the dream. Do you think any of this makes sense? Also, @Nahm @allislove

@Preety_India Take a deep look here. The very idea that you should be selfless, IS selfishness. You are just holding onto an identity and thought-story of "selflessness" and now feeling the insanity and nonsensical nature of it. If anything would be truly selfless or spiritual here, it would be for you to let go this story of a self that should be selfess. What a freeing realization!

@Preety_India I understand what you're saying. I took this "survival vs. spirituality/love" mind-story to a very dark place, psychosis, and almost killed myself. Basically... To the extend I understand it, you cannot "not survive". Even the fact that you judge yourself about your selfishness and survival IS survival and selfishness, only in a very deceptive manner. The "you", the very identity and the "decision maker" you think you are is the one surviving. There is no "a you" to transcend or let go survival. Even to try doing that would be survival. Remember, survival is not just about the physical body, but also mind-stuff, identity. For example, think of those Islamist suicide bombers. They physically kill themselves in the name of their muslim identity. The "you" cannot transcend survival. There is no-one that does that. There is nothing the story-character can or has to do in order to trancend itself, because it is the one that is being transcended. The You simply remembers that it's watching the story unfold, and that it is the story itself. This is the actual no-self. Not the selfless story character you think you are or should be.

This is a reminder for myself and for someone there who may need it. YOU CAN ALWAYS STOP PLAYING THE GAME. You can just let go - by choosing another game, another perspective. You can always stop playing a game of: - Spirituality - Seeking the Truth - Becoming more selfless - Logic - Politics - Relationships - Good and bad - Learning, growing and waking up - Depression - Anxiety - Fear - Addiction - Not being enough - Being guilty etc... And remember... There is no judgement. There is no right and wrong. There is no 'more righteous' or 'more corageous' games. These qualities are all parts of the game - drawings on the paper, rather than the paper itself - and can be let go, whenever you want.

@nuwu I think I get you. You are burning alive. So am I. Wanna be friends?

What do you mean by "imaginary"? If you don't go and jump off a bridge to your own death to show me the "imaginary-ness" of it, what meaning does that word have? Why don't you call it "non-imaginary" or "real" then? One user on the forum already killed himself. When will you take your words seriously?

I have been on the edge of insanity and suicide. If one says death is imaginary, they should have no problem showing me there is nothing to fear.