roopepa

Thanks! This clarified it a lot. I'll think about it.

Let's take some Qanon covid/climate change denier for an example. He thinks that there is a global elite trying to steal his individual rights by media, socialism and covid/climate conspiracy, and form some global communist 1984 dystopia. I'm thinking... Maybe this whole shebang is simply just fear of losing personal identity? Stage green & above, and covid/climate is pushing for union, seeing the finger as a part of the hand. The Qanoner is terrified of this. He has been taught for his entire life from school to media to his family that he is the finger, an individual, he has natural personal rights and property, that he is a proud american. And now the whole world seems to be saying that he is in fact not only the finger, but also the hand. And he must start acting with the other fingers to form a healthy hand that can do stuff. He mistakes this healthy hand as some satanist 1984 dystopian. Every article or politician who pushes him to recognize the hand, to start acting according it's needs, he sees as evil propaganda. "It can't be true. This is all lies. 'They' are trying to control/own me." Perhaps he even projects his own selfishness and fear of losing personal identity on the elites. What do you guys think? Am I onto something?

Welcome to my chimp shit war.

What I am pointing here is what seems to be natural across all life, defending identity (that of a cell, a finger, a hand, a body...) and resisting upwards movement, fearing the loss of individuality (which have never had separate existence) creating story of oppressor/manipulation coming from outside. "I can't accept it as truth, it must be a lie." Recognizing ones role as a part of the hand (and the hand itself), which has always been the case, is not authoritarian movement, nor the hand oppressing the finger. Point me the exact problems of my misunderstanding of holism right here and stop being so vague. Also, @Leo Gura I would appreciate your feedback too. I am honestly interested understanding this better.

The hand does good for the finger because it is literally 'made of' the fingers. You completely misunderstood my point. This is a nonsense conversation.

It is quite likely that they are not Green, at least not in a healthy manner. Authoritarianism is not what I meant with "the hand".

Where in my words is this apparent?

Recognizing the possibility of the finger being unified with the hand, that there is no separation, is the dismantling of materialist paradigm. I would not have mentioned anything like that if I was talking from the perspective of a "3D material world".

@Parththakkar12 You are making a ton of assumptions that are not apparent in my post. You misunderstood what I was trying to say.

Wat Where do you see materialist paradigm present in my post?

Did you even read my post?

Because "achieving enlightenment" is delusion.

Survival is not just about the body. Why does an islamist suicide bomber kill himself in the name of Allah? Posession, prestige, power... People seek these because of the survival of identity. Humans are not separate from each other, culture, beliefs, identity etc. In fact, "my physical human body" IS identity. Your individual physical survival is just one miniscule part of the Great Survival. Leo's video is also 'coming from' the social matrix, as are all the books he recommends. And so is this post of yours. If we 'only need to question what's arising within', why did you write this post? What exactly are you trying to do?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ContagiousLaughter/comments/hlsc2p/my_brother_in_law_found_out_kanye_was_running_for/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

@Carl-Richard Yes. I had a psychotic episode about a year ago. After a very bad trip I spiraled down into very delusional and dysfunctional ideas and stories of metaphysics, spirituality and life. Almost committed suicide. Yeah this sounds about right. It's similar with all kinds of toxic ideologies such as incels and conspiracy theorists. Actual psychosis is just a lot more radical and 'personal', it affects the more fundamental levels of the mind constructing experience. Ideology happens still within social framework.

YES I have very similar experience with weed. I was a stoner too. Very insightful. I've always been a very addiction-prone person. My mind is just so chaotic. I may get diagnosed with ADD soon. It very much seems like one "hides" from certain emotions into thought-stories. And when the thought-attachments becomes too taxing, one seeks to lighten up through substances or other addictive behaviour.

Nah. People use drugs because they have unprocessed traumas and such emotional baggage. There are plenty of highly intelligent addicts.

I'm sure humour is some kind of a part or a feature of true nature. Sometimes it's just too good to be anything less than divine.

I've had visions too. A few years ago on the new years eve I was partying, and somewhere around midnight got a headache. Went to sleep a bit earlier than others. Lying in bed with closed eyes, I was suddenly thrown "out the body" to space outside earth. In a few seconds I traveled to a distant galaxy so far away that it is propably impossible for a 'normal human mind' to comprehend. There, I saw a complex multi-dimensional geometrical shape made of purple light. And it was not simply just a shape, but a living being. She greeted me and gave me her name. The name is impossible to translate into our language, and I don't remember it very well, but I can say that it started with something that is similiar with our letter G. She felt very familiar. Something there felt like home.

Your example sucks. First of all, SD models values. Stage Turquoise does not value personal power, cult mentality, racism or murder. Second, a psychedelic state is not a developmental stage. Mystical experiences are interpreted at the base-line developmental stage of the individual. For example, no stage Yellow person would think after a trip "now that I experienced God and I know everything is love, I go and murder people". Manson was Red. He used his mystical experiences a stage Red person would, for personal power. He used his mystical understanding to avoid responsibility, yet it never prevented him from manipulation and murder.

Yeah me too. I don't really care about that stuff anymore. I don't think that 'states' or 'awakenings' are what any of us are really looking for, they are not Home. In fact, a few days ago I wrote 'forgetting spirituality' onto my dreamboard. What I've been calling "spirituality" has just been a mountain range of bullshit. It's just stressful to be seeking and waiting for these 'states and insights'. You just feel the unturth of it. It seems that life is way more simple than the mind often thinks. I don't think you need books or teachers or 'spirituality', at least after a certain point. It's become quite clear to me that Truth takes care of itself.

So simple, so obvious, yet this blew my mind.

Do you want to be comfortable and not distressed? I understand why you sometimes 'want' to see those things. I've felt it too. Seeing another beheaded, shot in the head, tortured... It shocks you, it changes you. It shifts your perspective. Sometimes it feels kind of good to see things from different perspectives. When you see another getting their throat cut open with a chainsaw, your own problems don't seem so bad anymore. One thing that I find valuable after seeing these things, is that now I really do know that I don't want anyone to experience that. Not even the killers themselves. Every time I remember I have a role to play here with others, every time I think and talk politics, I keep in mind what's at stake here. We have the power to change things. We can build a better world. Truly do your best to learn how to make things better. Read books. Watch documentaries. Vote the right people. Study all there is to study. And remember the guy who got beheaded. Let yourself feel the fear and compassion.

Yeah. Of course. When I say "Turquoise" I refer to the altitude of development in which stages of different lines correlate with each other, with SD Turquoise. My bad for using poor language. When I talk about a developmental altitude I am not talking about a person who may or may not have different lines at different stages. I am talking about the altitude.

Leo and Ken Wilber. Turquoise is late vision-logic, holistic thinking and aware of ego, yet has not transcended ego. In Susanne R. Cook-Greuters model, Ego-aware (6, Alchemist) correlates with SD Turquoise. This is not ego transcendence. Turquoise does not transcend the mind, emotion, "life", "experience" and "world".