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@Karmadhi Saw it now. I glad this is over and ended in 2014 with the help of the great Justice minister Tzipi Livni. Sounds like there was a group of Israeli workers that "dealt their own justice".

+1 ❤ In my opinion, definitely exaggarated enormously by Al Jazeera (mainly) and the like echo chamber. It is one thing to talk maturely about problems and to critisize fairly, and it is totally another thing to exaggarate and to lie. Palestinian propaganda is way way more corrupt than the Israeli one and fulled with lies which I saw them being exposed in the media. They have one of the most manipulative propaganda in the world. This is naiveness to think their inner corruption won't be expressed in their media too.

@zazen Watched it all now. Yes there are minority among the settlers who create a very big problem. I understand your point here.

@Karmadhi Can you please give me a link from where you have read/heard about the children?

No. I know you are very thorough and tend to deepen with your messages in a postivie way of course but the last message dissmises the reason Israel does what it does and its survival situation from where it acts that people overlook.

Appreciate and understand. I will try to be more careful to that. We must have a less extreme more centrist government as soon as possible 😤😶‍🌫️

@Lila9 wow I also just thought about it before I saw your message. When a giant shouty word is used to explain a situation ("genocide", "atrocities" etc) this is always or mostly an escape from seeing the bigger context, the validity of the other side's pov and like an emergency compensation word the amigdala fires you to do to feel comfortable and calm again.

@BlueOak This mathematics of definitions is meaningless to me when out of the context sorry. In 1940s in Germany there were also all of that done by the allies to defeat the nazis and much more extreme.

@BlueOak Every such term like "ethnic cleansing" is totally meaningless and no more than a slogan when being related out of the bigger context. In the bigger context, hamas kidnapped and murdered our people, left Israel no option but to fight back to eliminate him or at least 95% of him before it will agree to release them all. hamas is a gerilla organization knows it is weaker than organized militaries, hence developed through its evolution a strategy we can compare to a smart virus who uses healthy cells and also diguise itself to them, in order to survive. And when you have 10,000s terror targets to attack, it is impossible to think every single time how to hurt only terrorists, and not by mistake also healthy cells, even if you try your best.

@BlueOak I really don't think it is realistic to bring back the hostages by special operations, except for only couple of hostages to the at most. Only by deal. And thank you too! I appreciate that 🙏

And the other proposals? There were countless. See Anapolis conference with MANY mediators in the negotiations: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annapolis_Conference And sorry but to explode it all like a child is not serious. They have to understand we can't just trust them blindly after what they did, and to also do concessions. I am not saying Barack's offer was fair enough but there were so many with many more mediators in the negotiation process apart from Israel and palestine.

@zazen About the war I already explained what I think. I want to give them a state but they have refused every time. Again the settlements is a big problem and here this is israel's responsibility. Also to stop arresting children from time to time I don't like it at all. About the other slogans I am still not convinced and this is all sounds to me like a big balloon with a lot of air in it. I understand this is how they feel but they would feel it anyway as long as Israel exists.

@kenway These homes are probably empthy and if not empthy then probably populated by hamas people. This technique of cherry picking blurry stuff from the periphery and making them seen as the picture of IDF doesn't work on me. There never was and never be a symmetry between the two sides. And be thankful because any other western military would behave very likely much more dirty. You just hold IDF to be a tier 2 angle and then when it can't be a tier 2 angle you are complaining and say it is a devil. These games are transparent and embarrasing.

@BlueOak If we didn't have hostages to save, then we could argue about more creative ways to eliminate hamas as you suggested a month ago I remember and it was interesting to read. but as long as we have hostages that hamas didn't agree to release without the military pressure, I don't know if we could have another option.

Good luck with understanding the situation when you refuse to confront the emotions 7.10 might bring to you by denying and polishing techniques your mind does for you. After that, how can a fair and serious discussion be done in the first place?

I think this thread is already challenging enough goal to light 🤣😂

I answered here: Thats not what Israel want to do. See Israel's far reaching pragmatic steps in the last 5 years including the billion of dollars invested in a smart fence and all of that to avoid unecessary wars in all cost. The rest: I understand you feel pain from the situation, and I agree with you that Israel policy with the settlements is part of the problem, and also the overall relation and behaviour to the palestinians have to improve. But I don't agree with 90% of the critisizm about this war because of the explanation I linked to.

Almost every country started its life with an occupation. But only Israel is blamed for that. Sorry I don't buy it. The answer to that you will have to find in psychology and spirituality books, not in history. You could be fair and critisize the settlement in a constructive way.

Partially. You just now dumped the responsibility fully on Israel, because then you don't need to understand its perspective any more. Again, hamas ideology has deeper roots been expressed also in 1920s and 1930s before Israel was established, But even if I go with you and say theoretically this is "only" israel's fault (whats wrong but say for a moment it is)... Do you expect Israel a tier 2 understanding and then attacks Israel and let it be thrown under the bus because it failed to understand the situation to a tier 2 level? It is interesting, there are other societies you hold to such high standarts? or this is the case only when it comes to Israel? Can you see how much this is a clever defence mechanism against any possibility of really listening to Israel's perspective?

You are enormously underestimate the survival position Israel is found in. This is not only the physical survival as much as its identity survival according to the feeling and knowing we are so much better than those terorrists as we holds our values too, but when your friends and family who hold similar values don't believe you, and you have to prove them all when the virus took over you made them believe him(!) again and again. Dont take this words in a strict logical way but as an emotional metaphor to show the existential psychological serious crisis Israel is found in which is very real, and not less painful than if it was only a physical one. Then you will be in a position to understand better why her brakes are looser now against this virus (hamas).

Not a mature source. Such hateful and dark. Show me something serious and deeper that doesn't fueled by hate and not that transparent.

~50% of Israelis hate him and oppose his over nationalistic world view at least this is the impression I have got. They are already above that level.

From where is that? AJ doesnt count a decent source in my opinion.

Because evacuated northern Israel residents refuse to return to their homes until Hezbollah's Radwan force will be pushed away to northward of Litani river. And they are right. They don't want another 7.10 to happen. And yes, if radwan will be pushed northward diplomaticaly it will be the best way, but I doubt it can happen without force.