Nivsch

+1 ❤

Yes, arrested, not permanently, not in bad conditions, and not in threat to their lives but in an humane manner, too humane that people in Israel complain why terrorists in Israeli prisons can even do a degree. Our court here pisses off many Israelis for its humaness I guess you won't see this anywhere in the world. Really. But like really, not because I want to exaggarate because I am an Israeli. Having said that, I don't like that Israel arrests minors and I am not justifying that. But it incomparable in any sense to being kidnapped by hamas. This is still a night and day difference.

True. Since I'm 5 years old I hear that Israel offered the palestinians an independent state with 67' lines and east jerusalem their capital and they refuse. Even if they don't justified the massacre itself, they want to think the bad guy is good in his essence and as happens in many relationships the bad guy is much more exciting and apealing to them.

A perspective someone have when doesn't need anymore thrills to satisfy his stage red defficiency cravings.

You are in la la land. we don't kidnap people. But I am not blaming you. You just don't know Israel. Its understandable.

But on the war which its goal is to eliminate hamas completely every one here is agree. Both left and right. The controversy is only about the day AFTER hamas is gone, and about that the far-right wants to re-settle in Gaza. The vast majority in Israel doesn't want at all to re-settle there and want only to give the control on Gaza to either the palestinian authority or an international force, probably with IDF help and right to enter into Key points in Gaza in any time to prevent terror cells from growing.

@Danioover9000 The settlements in the west bank are problematic and I also wish they were stop from keep expanding. I agree with you on that point. Along with that, it is easy to miss out how the palestinians attitude towards the Israelis was quite violent and sometimes radical just like today, way before 1967' and 1948'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini Let alone the terror was even more severe every time right after we fully agreed to let them an indepentent state in the west bank and to go back to 67' lines (with areas exchanges).

@Raze Gaza is an independent state that gets humanitarian aid every day from Egypt and Israel they can't provide for themselves because they lack air and marin ways. I understand you think we needed to give them also these things, but, the problem is that there is a terror organization controls there, and it already proved to use every money it gets for terror goals. What do you think hamas will do if we give him also marin and air capabilities? So sorry but you are just wrong here. I recommend you to see Jordan Peterson video I putted a link to in my signature.

You are wrong. Israel left Gaza completely in 2005 including all the settlements, all of that gone, except a maritime closure to prevent hamas from weaponising much more seriously. All the other thing including money, food, medicine, electricity, water they got every single day during all these years. The number is a mixture of hamas and civilians together I added an explanation in another thread. What about the thousands of Israeli children in the south traumatized from 15 years of rockets with 15 seconds(!) warning to go to the shelter together with oct 7th killed, kidnapped, orphans? Silence. Enough is fucking enough. About the diet and water all of that I won't respond because this is such a joke. How long you will keep turning night into day and saying the sun rises in the west? Biden doesnt believe your games anymore, neither the majority of the mature population in europe neither europe's leaders.

What's illegal is the cult Gaza's children were in the last 15 years which in their minds have been poisoned maybe irreversibly to prefer jihad and death with no future waiting for them. Now their chance of healing has started.

UN is maybe the most biased player on the field. Even Iran is less biased.

@Lila9 But they will keep saying "occupation" every 3 hours just because their agenda is anti Israel to begin with no matter what, exactly at the same way they choose to focus only on Gaza's children when they forget that up until now those children have been captives of a cult and now they get a chance to heal, but on that, of course, they won't talk.

That listening to the western medicine as the only or even the most valuable source is a stupid mistake that might cost one's life. To think as broadly as possible, and to trust yourself and your body capabilities are the most important things. Western medicine reduces human's body and mind way too simplisticly, and I know this from how I got to reduce drastically my ocd only by escaping the western thinking and think deeper than its limited way of thinking.

@zazen Every society has its edge cases. I have never seen Israeli childern sing like this before. What needs to be remembered: In israel this is an edge. In Gaza this is the norm. but you will keep cherry pick cases like this from channels managed by people who have never set their foot on here.

Agree. Thay can't get a state unless there will be a security belt of 20-30km depth all over the west bank maybe this is the only possible scenario.

@LSD-Rumi I would argue about the details a lot but I want to stress another point now: This is exactly what hamas wants people to say. hamas is a clever virus that engineered the situation in such a way that claims like you make are an inheret part of its deffense mechanism against the physical attack on him. It is not stupid. It knows it is much weaker and thats why its deffense strategy is highly manipulative and half of its efforts are aimed to maintain this non-physical deffense stage orange strategy the most senior among hamas people are capable to do.

"hamas IS the palestinians in Gaza" "They (the civilians) cheer them (the terrorists) on with such glee, with such pride" An important video: https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cz5rCKzo7_b/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== What does not give an excuse to not trying to attack only official hamas people as accurate as possible of course, BUT it meant to show something deeper about the decay the whole Gaza's society is found in. The collateral damage is not pleasant and has to be minimized as much as possible, but it cannot be avoided if we want to heal the society of Gaza in the long term. And before you jump, of course this is not the IDF that will heal them, but only their leaders who will come after that will, but the first part of the healing process its the IDF that have to do.

🎯

I understand, but many or most of the "kicking out" was only after the arabs started resisting violently the Jews who came here during the British Mandatory and especially after the war the arab initiated in respone the the UN Partition Plan. Thats what I understand but if you have another data please add because I am not an expert and maybe I dont see the whole picture. About the settlements I agree with you, but in the other hand the opposite is also true because Israel has offered the palestinians endless times to establish a state for them with eastern Jerusalem as their capital and most of the west bank area, and they have always rejected every proposal including when we offered them that we will retreat back to 67' lines (with areas exchanges). Let alone the evacuation of Israel from Gaza in 2005 letting them a decent independence to live their life however they want.

Nice to hear that and even more intersting now to hear what you think seriously. When you have time relate please also to what I wrote above and add of course what you want.

Imagine being bombed by missiles for 15 years from south and threatened also by another proxy military in Lebanon, leading by A regime in Iran who develop nuclear power and also declare it wants to destruct you. Also from east you have thousands of hamas terrorists not recognizing at all you country's right to exist. And when you try to deffend yourself, they mix themselves in civilians to prevent you from doing that and the world believe them. Would you feel this is right and does justness with you? Don't hurry to judge a survival situation of a society you have not experienced.

This quote proves you don't know Israel's strategy and way of thinking. *Buildings which are mostly empty from civilians (who were asked to leave) and uses as hamas fortifications against IDF. Fairly yes there are civilian casualties because of hamas #1 strategy to assimilate among them very manipulatively. But the numbers are very likely highly manipulated too, which doesn't mean Israel has at all no room to improve its accuracy, but the world has to understand we are dealing with a clever virus and not just a stupid suicidal animal.

This number is very likely a mixture of hamas people and civilians together: Also the west is not all stupid and knows hamas assimilates itself among civilians as deep as possible and as manipulative as possible because that its #1 survival strategy and what it does all day long, as he knows IDF is much stronger.

@zazen I would doubt and question very seriously, checking it again from a blank slate - What is really the number of civilians casualties in Gaza? It seems that Gaza's health ministry reports are mixings hamas people with civilians. Worth couple of minutes to hear this: