Nivsch

@lina The radical right-wing government we have for sure influences and worsen the collateral damage, but every western nation attacked like oct 7th would react very similarly.

@Karmadhi They are cherry picked as long as they site almost only radical exremists like Gideon Levi and the like, and when they overlook the fair context and dynamics between the sides.

Nobody mass murders anyone. There are 10,000s terror targets to attack and the casualities are 15,000 civilians and ~10,000 hamas ratio of 1.5:1 that when fighting with cynical gerilla organization this is of course expected.

@lina Without knowing the details in the cherry picked linktree I can answer in general that of course dehumanization will happen after such a trauma and the celebrations in Gaza in oct 7th and after 30 years of agreements and negotiations followed by only more terror. Start to see the whole dynamic rather than to blame almost only one side. Every western country would probably react the same when needed to eliminate a terror organization who mix itself together with civilians in Rafah but also everywhere in Gaza.

@Karmadhi Nobody destructed their society or culture. They could have became to like one of the Emirates. Israel has not searched any war at all and has invested on technology and on a smaller and smaller IDF (shorter and shorter service length for youngs) and was in a conception we won't need to enter Gaza. The naiveness of Israeli IDF commanders line of thinking has been broken in 7.10.

@Karmadhi from top to down: I didn't see anywhere that hamas agreed to release them before the ground operation. It doesnt make sense, it would erase their efforts overnight. Please find me a link that proves that. Israel didnt cause "far more" I disagree with that. Also the context is important if not the most important thing. The Allied also did a tremendous damage to Germany. Nobody just kicked anyone out of the blue, in 1947 a totally civil war in its character has started and from then yes, its a whole Jungle. But Jews were almost only in deffence first until almost lost. Also, displacement and building in your territory although problematic is still not even close to suicide bombing and being hostage in hamas tunnels. 2nd intifada started right after a decade long of signed agreements between Israelis and Palestinians supposed to give them a lot of hope. The Palestinians physical area in the West Bank is much larger than central Israel due also to greater surface area due to the mountainy landscape by the way an another parameter I though about recently.

@Karmadhi Of course hamas will fully recover in the course of 2-3 years if Israel won't finish him. About the casualities, this is the harsh reality of the dynamic of war between two sides when one of them reject all the peace offeres gave to him and caused Israelis a 30 years long trauma. You can say "but the settlements" and yes we also have our responsiblilty and Bibi is also an obstacle to peace. Would it be enough even if we did everything right? Highly doubt it. Israel very existance causes a religious short circuit in the mind of fundamentalist Muslims that maybe really nothing would help. I heard Chris Hedges lecture in the blog and it made zero impression on me and totally biased and emotional and naively blame gaming and profoundly failing to understand Israel's roots and essence.

@Heaven Tonight two hostages were rescued by IDF. Only now I read it. From Hell to home.

No. It is just that one chooses to define one side as the "understood" (emphaty) and the second side as the "responsible". This is a completely arbitrary decision stems from emotions and personal preferences. And after choosing that, he or she confuses this with "reality". But in (real) reality both sides can be understood if you learn their psychology enough, and both of them are responsible.

Sure, when they don't really know Israel and don't really know Palestine and the differences between them, this what happens.

There is no intentional murder of civilians here at all. Not even close. I can agree about some sort of collective punishment (intentional more or less) and about the influence of the far-right wing government we have now on the degree of the damage in Gaza. But honestly every western country would react pretty much the same with minor changes. The preaching I see in videos including in the video on Israel in Leo's blog are not make any impression on me. When you don't acknowledge the equal responsibility the both sides have to the dynamics of the conflict than you are not fair and just moralizing and doing yourself a dopamine massage.

@Karmadhi Ireland should ask itself why the rest of Europe don't think like her and grow up 😝

The responsibility is mutual and intertwined to a gordian knot between the sides. Every side need to work on his own. But this isn't the game being played here in this forum and we aren't stupid.

I really understand you. This is frustrating. They don't understand that 90% of Israeli Jews are westerners in all of their facets. Mentality, education and everything.

Israelis are no different in their mentality and development than the average of New York, California and Texas. And if you think they are, your view is highly deluded and you are not in a stable position to do a higher resolution discussion about the conflict.

@Karmadhi without even see it I choose to believe you and there are crap soldiers and bad husbands and bad human beings everywhere. You won't think differently anyway. No need to prove you anything.

@Heaven But the anti-Israel side here is attached emotionally to the palestinians. point. No matter what you will say against them, they will always be seen, through the anti-israeli filter here, as the under developed kid who just want to fight for his rights and by that logic they will always symphatize with them no matter how violent and animalistic they will be. Convincing is impossible. Only the more centrist quiet readers here can be somehow convinced.

@Karmadhi The West Bank is full of hamas terrorists with which Israel manages a low-intensity war since 2002, and co operates with PLO forces against them.

Every hamas terrorist is also a "killed palestinian" and 18 yo terrorists are a "palestinians children". I am done particiapting in the world naiveness towards the palestinians reports which cannot be relied. Thousands of hamas terrorists were arrested in West Bank since oct 7th this is already well known. Probably many of them eliminated during the operations I can guess. This is not to say there aren't at all killed civilians in the west bank and one of a time there is indeed such an isolated incident and I am not denying that. But if there are since oct 7th, they are for sure much much less than mentioned in this article.

Do you mean the PLO? This can explain many things, and not for good (if this is true). Can you add a link that shows that?

Agree, but when it becomes too rasping and dissonant it is better to point this out for what it is.

Yes it would be better if the eastern Jews used their connection to the Arabic culture they grew up nearby it, and utilize it to make closer relationships with the Palestinians and Israeli Arabs here, when our society were more acceptable to it. Every country will have to maintain some kind of a bubblish thinking in order to survive, and there is a tension here between this need and his personal need. But to draw this with only dark colors and to overlook hamas and Palestinians responsibility is an extremely biased approach he comes from and Owen nodded to with his head with that passion on his body language because it serves his anti Israeli emotional agenda. They are completely filter out the beauty and the many good sides and strengths Israel's society has. There are always trade offs with any direction we want to define ourselves towards.

Suffering is created when one of the sides in your mind tries to push his agenda by force onto the others, and prolongs as long as the sides aren't willing or don't know how to discuss between them. My definiton as I see it. I would like to discuss on this issue with you.

This is gonna create even more mental health problems, but this is unavoidable when green at the beginning moves too far away from its source.

Sorry to hear 🙏💛