Nivsch

@Karmadhi They were countless trials of Israel to make a two states deal and it has failed, along with couple of signed agreements in the 90s but the Palestinians chose terror. What has changed in the map is the settlements in which 80-90% of the Israelis are not interested at all.

But you described now only the deep right wing which is a minority. Even the average of the "Likud" (Bibi's party) don't have such a rigid ideology about a land from what I was impressed, apart from a minority of them + two small far right wing parties which indeed have.

+1 ❤

@Porphyry Fedotov From the wiki of the book I found an explanation I think is the most plausible: " The historian Benny Morris offered several interpretations for the departure of the Palestinians during the war, in the book "The Birth of the Palestinian Problem 1947-1949" published in 1988. In the book, Morris refutes the traditional Israeli explanation as well as the traditional Palestinian explanation for the refugee problem. The Israeli explanation was that the Arab leaders or the Palestinian leaders ordered or advised the Palestinians to abandon their homes, according to the Arab policy, the explanation was that the destruction resulted from the will of the Israeli government and the Zionist leadership. Morris claims that both explanations are partially correct, but not as a primary explanation. The basic explanation is war, its fears and the shortages it brought are what motivated the refugees to leave their homes."

@Danioover9000 This does not make sense in the context of surviving. This was a civil war Jungle. If you can find the same thing from another source I will investigate it seriously. I won't take seriously the source who engraved on its flag to fight Israel in the communication field and all means are valid.

@Danioover9000 They know it was a war? 📖 Probably forgot this detail. Even without relating to the list of lies. What about self deffense? They know this term?

Actually yes, Arabs. The Palestinian identity has started after Israel has established. See? Me also fell right now into this mind frame trick. This is really about Jews and Arabs who have this land for legit reasons and have to live here together.

@Karmadhi Most of the Palestinians came to the region only a while before Israel was established, as work immigrants under the Ottoman rule. The land was populated by Arabs and Jews who lived here in a relatively peaceful manner.

@Karmadhi There are also dozens of criminal husbands who murdered their wives last month in Canada. Then Canada is evil? Criminals are found in every system.

Maybe it reflects great the feelings of their side, but does not relflect what actually happened, nor do justice nor give any clue about the real motives, fears, intentions and struggles of the second side. For example, it will never mention that the Jews were almost lost at the beginning of the war when their strategy was mostly deffensive, or it will never mention that the Jews accepted the UN plan and the Arabs didn't.

I understand your motivation and your position, but to site the poison machine won't help anyone understand what happened 🧁🔥 Start with a source who is healthy in the way it does not do its all career from dehumanization of the other side using stones of truth wraped up with an Atmosphere of lies.

If to try to relate this more broadly, this issue of Jews involvment in US is not at all a simple notion as some this and that "lobby", I mean this is part of that but this is only a by product, merely the shell of a deeper reason and not at all the cause. The relationships between US and Israel are based mainly on identical values and principals - in the kernel I would say the individual freedom to lead his life as he wants to - and also interests. One evidence for that is the very close and authentic friendships have been weaved between some US presidents and Israeli prime ministers. An especially strong example for that is Itzhak Rabin and Bill Clinton.

What I think is that even if you were not wage slave and had a lot of free time, you still would not be more happy or satisfied. The 'slavery' would just turned itself to another form, likely to an inner relationships form, in your mind. The real problem won't solve by blaming others outside, but through taking full responsibility to the situation and do the work - outer of course too, but mostly inner - to set yourself free.

In 20 years when people are more evolved Nikki Haley will win.

@Understander I know Israelis for 36 years. I don't need to believe how they think.

Yes. In your mind.

Put pressure on hamas to release them this will address much more directly the root of the problem. To preach ignorantly in front of those protesting worried women and men is pointless and cruel to the hostages who suffer far more than anyone.

Absolutely. That is the thing. That what is so twisted about this conflict. The attacks on Israel are only in the periphery connected to logic.

As long as your friends and family are held hostages with magnitudes of suffering above anyone else then everything is far more complicated.

@zazen Even if the war was 100% pure the collateral damage was super high anyway. I do agree that there is an extra material damage that isn't necessary to eliminate hamas and I can't negate some sort of (material) collective punishment. But this is still an hypocricy. Israel did huge efforts for 18 years during its surgical 10 operations in Gaza. The civilian population also hold some responsibility and part of them are not really entirely seperated from hamas (but the human target has to be and actually is of course only hamas), what doesn't justify the amount of damage and I think a more moderate governemt would lessen the damage. But even with all the good intentions, Gaza would have been mostly destroyed as an inevitable outcome of destroying its terror organization.

@zazen Of course you will react dis-proportionally after trauma.

@zazen Ok if you want to judge a nation 5 minutes after it got the worst trauma since its establishment. Every sane person would react this way. Presidents are still human beings.

@Vrubel Gantz is also very moderate and I hope he will replace Bibi. He has the best chance right now and has a great support from the Israelis.

@zazen This is the most triggering conflict to the average reader around the world because this is the most tangible example of so different and far from each other values systems clash.

They take their privilege of living in a democracy totally for granted. They have too much free time to fantasize on the bad guy who represents their lower stages values they subconsciously crave and symphatize with him unproportionally. They can only learn in the hard way.