Nivsch

Since this war has many components including religious and ideology ones, the perspective you described is part of the complex reality of this conflict. The Palestinians refusal to any compromise throughout the years is, among the rest, out of a fundamentalist religous ideology.

*The hoatages have to be released.

This is not about "war mongering" at all. She has a great common sense in her ability to differentiate between healthier forces and less healthy ones. The biggest war mongers are the ones who give every content the same pass out of poisonous extreme relativism in the best case, or prefer the darker ones out of personal psychological cravings they have when they live under a democracy from birth and take it totally for granted, in the worst case.

@Karmadhi When there are hostages involved, the whole story is different. In the message above I meant to the daily activity of IDF in the West Bank, by the way with an intimate co-operation with the PLO against hamas there.

I understand you feel unconfortable reading this. I live among Israelis I know their thinking. I feel the survival in my body even though I live deep in an Israeli zone, far from the conflict zone. From outside is so easy to fall into the illusion of the big Israel vs the "small" palestinians. The truth is different and much more complicated. They are 2 million Palestinians sitting in an area which is greater than central Israel. There are also 2 more million Palestinians living within Israel (Israeli Arabs) peacefully nearby the Jews - you will be surprised - right fucking now. When you understand the big context in a more balanced way, then you will automatically see that IDF acts in the West Bank are almost completely out of a deffensive strategy (not without problems! but deffensive). Your perception on Israel's actuall doing (as you mention it) will be then changed when you will be able to embody our survival position. Very difficult from distance when you don't have to deffend yourself from terror for 30 years. Most Israelis are not interested in the land of West Bank. This is a fact you can argue with to the moon and back.

@Danioover9000 I am talking about nowadays. The ideologists who want all the land including west bank are a minority.

@Karmadhi They were countless trials of Israel to make a two states deal and it has failed, along with couple of signed agreements in the 90s but the Palestinians chose terror. What has changed in the map is the settlements in which 80-90% of the Israelis are not interested at all.

But you described now only the deep right wing which is a minority. Even the average of the "Likud" (Bibi's party) don't have such a rigid ideology about a land from what I was impressed, apart from a minority of them + two small far right wing parties which indeed have.

+1 ❤

@Porphyry Fedotov From the wiki of the book I found an explanation I think is the most plausible: " The historian Benny Morris offered several interpretations for the departure of the Palestinians during the war, in the book "The Birth of the Palestinian Problem 1947-1949" published in 1988. In the book, Morris refutes the traditional Israeli explanation as well as the traditional Palestinian explanation for the refugee problem. The Israeli explanation was that the Arab leaders or the Palestinian leaders ordered or advised the Palestinians to abandon their homes, according to the Arab policy, the explanation was that the destruction resulted from the will of the Israeli government and the Zionist leadership. Morris claims that both explanations are partially correct, but not as a primary explanation. The basic explanation is war, its fears and the shortages it brought are what motivated the refugees to leave their homes."

@Danioover9000 This does not make sense in the context of surviving. This was a civil war Jungle. If you can find the same thing from another source I will investigate it seriously. I won't take seriously the source who engraved on its flag to fight Israel in the communication field and all means are valid.

@Danioover9000 They know it was a war? 📖 Probably forgot this detail. Even without relating to the list of lies. What about self deffense? They know this term?

Actually yes, Arabs. The Palestinian identity has started after Israel has established. See? Me also fell right now into this mind frame trick. This is really about Jews and Arabs who have this land for legit reasons and have to live here together.

@Karmadhi Most of the Palestinians came to the region only a while before Israel was established, as work immigrants under the Ottoman rule. The land was populated by Arabs and Jews who lived here in a relatively peaceful manner.

@Karmadhi There are also dozens of criminal husbands who murdered their wives last month in Canada. Then Canada is evil? Criminals are found in every system.

Maybe it reflects great the feelings of their side, but does not relflect what actually happened, nor do justice nor give any clue about the real motives, fears, intentions and struggles of the second side. For example, it will never mention that the Jews were almost lost at the beginning of the war when their strategy was mostly deffensive, or it will never mention that the Jews accepted the UN plan and the Arabs didn't.

I understand your motivation and your position, but to site the poison machine won't help anyone understand what happened 🧁🔥 Start with a source who is healthy in the way it does not do its all career from dehumanization of the other side using stones of truth wraped up with an Atmosphere of lies.

If to try to relate this more broadly, this issue of Jews involvment in US is not at all a simple notion as some this and that "lobby", I mean this is part of that but this is only a by product, merely the shell of a deeper reason and not at all the cause. The relationships between US and Israel are based mainly on identical values and principals - in the kernel I would say the individual freedom to lead his life as he wants to - and also interests. One evidence for that is the very close and authentic friendships have been weaved between some US presidents and Israeli prime ministers. An especially strong example for that is Itzhak Rabin and Bill Clinton.

What I think is that even if you were not wage slave and had a lot of free time, you still would not be more happy or satisfied. The 'slavery' would just turned itself to another form, likely to an inner relationships form, in your mind. The real problem won't solve by blaming others outside, but through taking full responsibility to the situation and do the work - outer of course too, but mostly inner - to set yourself free.

In 20 years when people are more evolved Nikki Haley will win.

@Understander I know Israelis for 36 years. I don't need to believe how they think.

Yes. In your mind.

Put pressure on hamas to release them this will address much more directly the root of the problem. To preach ignorantly in front of those protesting worried women and men is pointless and cruel to the hostages who suffer far more than anyone.

Absolutely. That is the thing. That what is so twisted about this conflict. The attacks on Israel are only in the periphery connected to logic.

As long as your friends and family are held hostages with magnitudes of suffering above anyone else then everything is far more complicated.