Nivsch

Those events are either before IDF has established or in the 1950s, and even then, though criminal and reckless, aren't similar to the clear preplanned intentions to kill civillians we see in terror attacks.

@Emerald The root intentions are fundamentaly different.

Before Netta has won in 2018, her song made Israel to be the favorite to win ESC in YouTube and the official site of the polling. This is an organic dynamic.

@PurpleTree Israel is most likely controversial in Europe, and a really good song and performance are still necessary, and Israel brought that this year. Also, the demographic tension in Europe, combined with the backlash the anti-Israel which are often too demonic and bizzare messages cause from the other part of the continent plays a significant role too. Overall, perhaps Israel is really not as hated as the media shows, and many Europeans actually hold more diverse and nuanced views about it. The hate portrait against Israel turns out to be between a myth to a much more complex picture in reality.

@PurpleTree The EBU made it quite clear that the voting results are valid. https://www.thejc.com/news/world/ebu-eurovision-rigged-public-vote-israel-m1p2a2be Not everyone is a fanatic who generalize government actions on an entire nation.

Supporting Trump's plan to relocate Gazans after all that happened isn't an ideology of ethnic cleansing but a potentially reasonable solution to the situation when 2M people are locked in a tiny area between two countries and suffer a misserable life under a tyrranical rule of a terror organization.

@Raze From the deep right wing and above. I know Israeli politicians and their stances quite well.

@Raze The fact you mention 1950s were the mantality and norms were so different then (jungle, survival, less liberal and humanism) and also mention this ratio in an attack of hamas when its intention was SO different than IDF just shows the deep flaws in your current meesage.

So you are saying here that European coalition and US army that the war they commit harm many thousands of civilians are equally horrible to hamas? Zionists, in how this word is interpreted here, are at most two sectors in our society. When 3000 Israeli soldiers will deliberately enter a Palestinian territories and shoot whoever they see then it will be "equal". Until then, it is FAR from being equal. But still unjustified and bad. I thought you are honest but I see you just want to bit Israelis as bad as you can.

I agree that what Israel does understandably raises strong emotions among Muslims in Europe who want to express what is in their hearts. But I think that when a terrorist carries out an attack in Europe, he sees Europe, the West in general, and Israel as representing the same thing. Not aiming his message to Israel alone. Otherwise, I think, only Israeli embassies or Jews would be the targets.

@PurpleTree Even if Israel made a stronger campaign than most countries, this was important precisely to correct distortion and get more truthful results. Why? Because the juries hold 50% of the power while representing only about 0.001% of the voters. They aren't a representative sample of their nations' complexities, but rather represent at most one or two sectors who usually lean significantly to the left compared to others due to their political tendencies that comes from the closed circles/bubbles of group think of their professional background. They have proved to be undeniably enormously biased and in a complete opposition to the public, creating structures of allied votings which transparently homogeneously vote to favorite countries almost every year. In the context of this year, their fear of being called out by the public of their circles make this problem even worse. So when Israel makes more people abroad vote, it actually make the results be closer to what they would be if 100% of the points came from the public. Nevertheless this doesn't come to justify any of these tactics, but given the game isn't clean from both sides, their absolute influence has to be as equal as possible so they can offset each other. The solution to this problem isn't to keep pushing those tactics, but to try to dialogue and work toward making the rules of this competition to become more balanced and less politically skewed.

He mentioned there many more reasons that are not connected to Israel but to the West in general. About Israel, how can I know the bad things he blame Israel in (Ok we can agree on bad policies towards Palestinians during the decades) aren't mostly an excuse for him to calmly negate Israel existance? Because HE wrote that in his own words (quotes from the letter): "The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes" "The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased" "The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed" How is this different than the Far Right Israelis who say that this land belongs only to Jews? Just the same, only reversed. How is Bin Laden here different in his retoric and his thinking structure than Israelis Far Right like Smotrich or Ben Gvir? And then how it affects his other details and the extreme one sided way he describe the whole conflict?

Did 9/11 happen because of Israel? Were the terror attacks in Madrid (2004) and London (2005) caused by Israel? Or the wave of ISIS attacks across Europe in the last decade? Its fair to claim that the war in Gaza radicalizes muslims in Europe, but I don't think it is the root cause at all. Because radical Islamic terrorism targets western society at large out of deep value systems clash. Also the west in general tries all the time to manipulate the Middle East rather than more genuinely negotiate with and build bridges. These are things that easily, and maybe understandably, get overlooked in the heat of the current conflict.

@Karmadhi Enough with these conspiracies.

Hopfully will be released to live freely in nature.

You are ignoring the real survival concerns that faced a young and much weaker than today nation in the jungle of 1948 and 1967. Just to remind you that Israel isn’t located in the Pacific Ocean. Back then the threat from the hostile region to the new Jewish people was orders of magnitude greater than the threat posed by Israel to the other people’s independence, which is the only side you are willing to see.

@Porphyry Fedotov Then the US and European coalition aren't different from ISIS according to YOUR exact same logic 🙂

"Every Gazan is hamas" say many Israelis. You just made now the same mistake, just flipped. Its called projection. Now, its important to be more accurate and for you to know, the IDF, though have its own corraptions, is still a system which designed to defend the Israeli citizens, and not to terrorise other people.

* This government

I probably missed it, but fair enough.

Jews are not a monolite.

Netanyahu is doing a horrible war right now which makes everything worse for everyone (not for neutrality sake but really), but the killing ratio, empirically speaking, is similar to America's wars and a bit smaller. Still very bad and had to stop many months ago, but honesty is also needed.

No. This is a radical sector who is now controlling Israel.

And create a Palestinian state in which they will be oppressed by an another Arab leadership similarly they have right now. Freedom won't be here.

hamas anyway does not protect the Palestinians. It exploits their suffering for its own ideological and religious agenda knowing fully the consequences. Its strategy is not resistance but sacrificing its own people for their ideological fantasies.