Nivsch

You are looking on this from a narrow limited view which is very far from being the whole picture. And yes, if any country in europe were get trapped in such an existential threat the young Israel has been in, they would also built very strong schemes in their minds about the societies of their surrounding countries, do gross generalizations and do the exact same mistakes Israel has fallen into. France even admitted at the beginning of the war it would behave just like Israel and even worse.

In the core I would say the individual freedom to lead his life as he wants to. This is the real glue behind the scenes. This western value easily being taken for granted because we are fishes swimming in it for decades.

Or just that, maybe, US and some of the west know Israel from a much broader perspective of (yes, interests, but also) common values, former governments throughout decades, bidirectional potential help with some common similar threats etc.

Agree because it will boost the moderate sectors in their society. By the way this week we had a family meeting in which my sister's boyfriend was too, and he told about how it was for him to be a soldier in the west bank when his group needed to enter to totally innocent Palestinians families homes in the night just to show occurance and domination. If you look at him, his speaking and his views (center-left according to his talking in this conversation) you would see a regular good boy, utterly non-machoistic at all that said it had no choice and needed to do that. Of course there are other soldiers that are different but it showed me the gap between the policy written from above, and the actual soldiers (boys... ages 18-21) in the field more sharply than ever.

Even If it would allowed I don't know if it would change hamas behaviour there that was not less cruel even to PLO people they were executed when they took the charge from them. I don't agree with our government approach, I just think I can understand how it looked from its eyes - an unjust reward for the terror after oct 7th that for the Israelis was their worst nightmares came true (and this last sentence I think too).

Israeli citizens see Gaza as an independent state we left in 2005, what is somehow true but not accurate. They aren't knowledgeable in the full details, just as I didn't know the more complicated picture until recently.

I don't know if any one is capable of saying on himself like that, because it emphasizes only one side of him out of many. As I see it, he has to say: "We Israelis were intented to good, but we have too our weaknesses, just like every other society, and our survival challenges and fear have lead us, throughout the years, to make unfair generalizations on the Palestinians, what made us to do also devilish actions we are now understand and regret for". Honestly even after that hamas will stay hamas and the extreme fundamentalist parts will stay as they are, in both sides. But the moderate ones will be increased and get a boost and tailwind.

I think this is just natural after an event like oct 7th, and some amount of attack is perhaps even needed in the middle eastern language. But after some months of war, as you wrote, the war starts to be controversial, especially when everybody understand now that Netanyahu is going head into the wall without any strategic thinking and geopolitical reasonable moderate moves backing his actions.

A knesset member in Lapid's party, Meirav Cohen. Former Minister of Social Equality and Pensioners.

Problems are created by us in order to show the next step to a more united collective or self. Therefore this is really not about the very occurance of a problem, but about how we relate to it, what determines if we are in a better or worse place. There is no such a thing even not in theory a problem free state.

Former prime minister Lapid.

+1 ❤️

@zazen All of this is totally reversible once a sane government will be established here. Don't worry

Former prime minister (2021-2022) Yair Lapid.

@Danioover9000 Security seniors in Israel are traditionally FAR moderate than the rigid right wing half of Bibi's governments over the years.

@zazen Gallant is moderate right wing, and he needed to convince Likud members to not establish military rule in Gaza, so in return he had to talk to their heart. He was in the near past in a center-moderate right party which was for two state solution. If you want I can send you their principles. Maybe today he is really against a palestinian state, but so little while after oct 7th this won't be a big surprise.

A popular Israeli Journalist.

And I glad to see you again in the conversation. The heat of the conflict emphsizes only crazy and (I dont want to write an unpleasant word that shows what I feel) voices, and doesn't do justice to the real broad thinking spectrum of so many Israelis that for them the country has been hijacked.

Whenever I am near computer I will put the english part up and show just the beginning of the hebrew just to be more comfortable to read for you.

Agree that is why Netanyahu is a disaster.

1. https://www.jns.org/un-blames-fog-of-war-for-major-overcounting-of-gazan-child-fatalities/ 2. https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-800772 3. https://mosaicmagazine.com/picks/israel-zionism/2024/05/the-un-quietly-admits-it-exaggerated-civilian-casualties-in-gaza/ 4. https://vinnews.com/2024/05/12/un-slashes-number-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-by-50/ 5. https://www.foxnews.com/world/un-revises-gaza-death-toll-50-less-women-children-killed-previously-reported.amp

All good 💛

There are definitely songs that have more consensus about them that they are good, than others, and many times with a big gap.