Nivsch

Usually when people don't agree they try to comment to the content of the message. Just for you to know.

There is no argument that the situation is distorted and unhealthy and in friction zones, there is an oppressive policy and actions. Nevertheless in most of the West Bank surface area Palestinians still live a decently independent and relatively free lives, though not entirely due to the checkpoints between major areas. Do you think minorities in other neighboring countries do better? Mostly worse. Although this is true that Israel as a democracy is expected to behave better, and that Palestinians deserve a real independent state, but exaggerations won't help advance the discussion anywhere.

@Raze What do you mean by civil society?

But why? They know that by 2029 Trump is out, so it is all quite reversible.

I work in weather forecasting in a meteorology company, and from this year I started helping people with mental health challenges through formal training in LiCBT ACT but in my own way, based on my personal experience, while I also try to guide them towards gradually discovering their own healing paths.

@zazen Israel gets overall (not particulary about the current operation in Gaza but in general) bipartisan support which is way beyond only the Evangelicals. I can agree that both Evangelicals and Smotrich and Ben Gvir voters have those lines of thinking you mentioned. Maybe the more right wing sector in the Likud (Bibi's party) too.

+1 🧡

@Breakingthewall From all that I have heard over 30 years about the relationships between key people in both countries, I find those lobby and utilitarian explanations almost an insult to intelligence, way oversimplified, feeling to me as a bypass stories in some senses and sometimes bordering in conspiracy. I understand this video has affected you and you are right for being outraged from people who watch bombing and so on, but I really can pick up examples of foolish people in every country.

Maybe the US understands something many people don't. Maybe the US knows Israel in a much broader way for decades and sees that small sectors hijacking the country do not truly represent the Israeli public and its values. Values that, on average, are similar to those of America and also diverse within the population in similar way.

Ego backlash isn't just a phenomena happens due to homeostasis (which is true too) but there is a reason which is beyond it. Look closely at the thoughts and fears the ego backlash bring with and work WITH THAT too. There is something here you should face more directly.

This is a thread for anyone who wants to seriously deepen their unserstanding on Israel. My goal is to offer an high-resolution view of Israeli society in the most authentic day-to-day way possible. The added value: A direct insight into Israel's mindset. This is something you won't find in any video or article from foreign media. Only here you will be able to see it. I aim to present an unfiltered view of regular Israeli citizens, journalists (but not politicians), leaders of public opinions and even celebrities from here. Please keep far-right-wing quotes out of this thread, and this is because other threads and many youtube videos are already saturated with them. Excluding them here will help create a more realistic and balanced picture at the end of the day. Let’s agree on one thing: Israeli society is neither more nor less special than any other. However given the one-sided portrayal of my country over the past year, it only makes sense to emphasize the aspects that are often overlooked. Therefore, this thread will lean towards a more positive tone, with the aim of presenting a more realistic picture overall.

"Most of the public understands that this is a criminal government that sacrifices hostages and soldiers and dismantles the country."

Israelis are not zionists. Zionists (in your version of the term) are far right sectors within Israelis that occupy key positions in our current corrupt government. And then you speak about echo chambers. Don't demonize 10M people without you having even 1% of understanding and familiarity with them and I won't continue this discussion any further under this thread.

@zazen It is not that your view isn't valid or not presented in an interesting way, and surely has points, but its about their partiality, not about being true or false. Another example is that Israel's military advantage is not accidental, but rather an overcompensation for its initial disadvantages on the macro scale of the Middle East. What this shows is that having a military advantage over someone does not necessarily mean a more self-confident position than theirs.

@zazen If someone takes now only one city from your country, you will start to develop emotions towards this piece of land and won't be able to compromise with him. You will become ideological just like him to take your city back to your hands, even if he will be satisfied with this one city and won't do any occupation or any oppression on you at all.

@zazen The history does not agree with this simplistic categorization. The Palestinian side commited brutal acts against Jews long before Jews began to have military advantage on them. What is refused to be accepted here is that the Palestinian side can and most likely has ideological roots to this land, just like the Jews have those, and the consistent trial to draw reality like Jews are only the ones who have Biblical aspirations, but Palestinians are just innocent reactors, is going against the commom sense and the nature of conflicts and to some sense human nature in general.

The right-wing sector of the Palestinians, on the second side of the equation, also has an ideology with independent reasons to exist (not dependent on the actions and policies of the second side), except that these pre-existing ideologies do fuel and worsen each other.

@Raze Any extreme group who turture somebody else is wrong and that is it. No further explanation needed for it.

@Raze No. An entity who rapes before it kills and do psychological continuous turture to helpless hostages isn't just "cornered" or in a "ghetto". This nerative is very weak.

Why can't hamas be just an ideological cult within stage Red just for its own sake (without further explanation needed) but far-right settlers in west bank can? Why this double standart?

The decision of Netanyahu's government to continue the war at this time (instead of sign an agreement, release the hostages and negotiate with moderate Arab players about alternatives to hamas in Gaza) is terrible, so in this sense I agree with you here.

She is absolutely right here. Perhaps it is you that want to preserve the simplistic image in your mind of your invented Israel.

The comparison isn't worth my calories to react about because I, personally, want to gain weight, so I will jump to the statistics. I don't know what is too much or too little. Is it about the harm to hamas? Gaza as a whole? Many will think that there is a need for more firepower because they think this is the way to eliminate hamas. So I really don't understand what he was trying to do here, or actually I do understand. This is true that there are many that have at this times no emphaty at all to the Palestinians whatsoever and for them they are mostly all the same. From what I see I have the impression that most (at least half for sure) of Israelis want Bibi to sign on phase B of the deal, release the hostages and end the war. I know this is very difficult and counter-intuitive to see about a small country that our brain interpret in a homogenous way, but Israel is diverse enough in a similar way in which America is, and include couple of totally differemt societies and sectors, and particulary about the war and in present days, Israel is divided to two opposing societies. This makes more sense if we remember that Jews came here from different continents and from totally different cultures. 99% of those Youtube videos are made by people who have never visited in Israel and have no real understanding on Israeli society. Here is a list of public leaders and journalists that can help to understand the political situation in Israel:

@Breakingthewall The new page pushed it backward so I copied my comment to you to there.