Nivsch

The more you try to become a model you absorbed from society (and less the path your mind is actually meant to follow) the more disconnected you get from your core, which destabilizes the system and increases the waves it creates.

Yes but even the serious people among those groups who write more in depth on those health issues were more suspicious and have complex views on vaccines too to my impression especially covid this is my point.

I thought about it today and it actually works similarly to what you say about the main religions. The pioneers had high awareness but the masses took their words and misinterpreted them into a dichotomic thinking and actions and this what happens in those groups today. Natural-minded people had preceded science in many things. They have thought about intermittent fasting, microbiom, grounding, avoiding processed food, body-mind connection, the problem with added sugar and many more things which on them science only started talking much later. On one hand its true that many of the people in these groups, perhaps more than I thought, are just like the masses who take those principles as were mere computer scripts, but in the other hand I think it is fair to say that there are maybe like 10-20% in those groups who are serious people in stage Green+ who criticise science from above and have some good takes, even if only on nuances, also on vaccines including covid.

Great thing. Too many balances and brakes are still much better than half of the population who hijack the other half and charge with no proportion to their relative power in the population.

This is something you really passionate about?

I had a cognitive breakthrough three years ago that made my two opposing sides of my ocd which is the rational brain and the emotional/reptilian/amigdala to connect and for the first time to talk with each other. From that moment my ocd has reduced by 80-90%.

Speaking with them on totally earthly daily topics and see how they relate to things.

The opposite - investigate those fears and work with them directly. This isn't limiting but what you need to develop further.

🥰

They will say to you that if ones body is really healthy (from Natural lifestyle) it will much less get harmed by viruses. I admit here I am much more siding with their views because I also felt on me personally the problems of western approach, though I am aware of the complexity (life saving treatments, emergency and so on when Western medicine is very important) so I will try to challenge the discussion with the natural-minded perspective when I think they are closer to the truth. But Western Medicine also won't know how to treat the root of their disorder and will musk it with pills instead.

On this parameter I agree. they don't really know how to advance the health of society effectively. What I do notice, and what many of them intuitively recognize, is that they give much more credit to the body's intelligence and its inherent ability to maintain health when given the right conditions (a very common statement among those people). This is often overlooked by Western medicine, which tends to view the body as a simpler machine, believing it knows better than the body itself what it needs, and manipulating it regularly, which can often make many conditions worse. This is why I say that many of the more natural-minded individuals have good points from above, and they tend to be critical of everything Western, including vaccines. Of course, they don’t fully tap into the complexity of healing and the multi-layered nature of the process, but overall, I tend to respect those groups far more than the mainstream Western medicine approach about Health, in general. Surely among the anti vaxxer they are also the very irrational ones even among such groups, what I don't deny, but I make here a distinction between what I see as two different groups essentially who criticise vaccines.

From what I have impressed, part of the anti-vaxxers are people who got harmed from western medicine and pharmaceuticals and have a broad critical thinking of the conventional thinking about health. They can be found on many groups of natural health, Veganism, 801010 diet, Fruitarians, Naturopathy and more, and they tend to automatically be more critical about vaccines too. Some of them become ideological anti-vaxxers, but basically, many of them can make many good points of criticism on western medicine from above, even if they are wrong about certain important vaccines, although I think they are not entirely wrong because vaccines do also harm but much less commonly than the diseases they prevent. Sure, there are the other side of groups of anti-vaxxer that make their critisism from below and from pre-rationality stage Blue.

From my own experience, just learning about a stage didn’t help me grow. Change only came when I chose to face a personal challenge more directly and independently, far from the common external thinking that didn’t help me. I learned it the hard way. This is what really changes your thinking structurally, because it comes from within. It makes the system truly believe it and shift. After that, this new structure translates itself to other areas of life.

In 2010 when I was 22 year old, I started to take antidepressants, due to anxiety, after family members convinced me to do. It helped at the beginning, but after couple of years the effect kind of wore off, when after ten years on them, in 2020, I felt even worsening (worse even than before the meds) what I suspect was due to tolerance and over adaptation of the brain. Very difficult year with a chronic feeling of anxiety and disconnection to myself. This is why I started taper it off gradually to heal that overadaptation effect, but I found out the current phase I need to do it is by reducation of 1.8% (yes, less than 2%) every month and I have more years ahead of me of tapering. Most people, and even 99% of doctors don't really understand AD withdrawal and how our body needs YEARS to re-adapt to the absence of the drug and how slow it often has to be done, even when I know that I dont need those drugs any more in the essential aspect. It won't be an exaggeration to assume that many people today are walking around and their mental difficulties are much worse due to some version of long term withdrawal symptoms they don't even know about.

If you tried to rewrite a friend of yours, how do you think he would react? The same goes for your brain and mind. Invest in a genuine relationship with it.

@gambler When the sources were solely against Israel, it referred to them as 'both sides' and vice versa. In summary the post's author was mostly right - 85%+ agreement that Israel lied about 27 (~70%) of the points, but misleading (high controversy) on 11 (~30%) of them, so don't worry. Good night from here.

Ok after asking it to summarize the findings I have to admit that the foreign resources agreed that Israel lied in most of the cases but still 11 of them are highly controversial.

Many of those points are partially true or controversial. I asked Chat Gpt about those points, and while it is obvious that Israel lied in part of the details (I am not going to deny that Israel lies sometimes) it's important to check the things in a fair and nuanced way and not to get dragged into demonization which will infect and skew the whole research. I deliberately asked it to exclude Israel's claims on them, which means that both sides of the argument here are only from foreign perspectives. This is what it answered me. I add here now only couple of them to not overload the page. Ambulance Workers Agreement that Israel lied: Human rights organizations such as "Palestinian Center for Human Rights" and "Physicians for Human Rights" argue that Israel's accusations against ambulance workers were unsubstantiated and part of collateral damage, not intentional strikes. Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some international actors believe there may have been misidentifications during combat, but the claims against ambulance workers are not conclusively supported. Shifa Hospital Agreement that Israel lied: International medical organizations and human rights groups argue that Shifa Hospital was a purely medical facility, and there was no evidence of Hamas using it for military purposes. Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some believe that although Hamas may have used certain facilities in Gaza, there is no conclusive evidence to confirm the claim that Hamas was operating within Shifa. Flour Massacre Agreement that Israel lied: The claim of a flour massacre is widely regarded as a fabrication, and there are no solid sources backing it up. Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: The claim is considered a rumor without credible evidence, and it is widely dismissed. Accusations Against Hospitals in Gaza for Hamas Activities Agreement that Israel lied: Health organizations like "International Committee of the Red Cross" and "Doctors Without Borders" state that Gaza's hospitals were purely medical institutions and were not used by Hamas for military purposes. Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some analysts believe that while there may have been some military activity, there is no clear evidence that Gaza's hospitals were complicit in any Hamas operations. Killing Women and Children with White Flags Agreement that Israel lied: Many human rights groups, including the "Palestinian Center for Human Rights," report no verifiable evidence of Israel intentionally killing civilians waving white flags, calling these claims false or misleading. Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some reports acknowledge tragic events involving civilians with white flags but argue that full details remain unclear. Gaza Universities Agreement that Israel lied: Educational organizations, including "UNESCO" and various humanitarian bodies, argue that Gaza's universities were destroyed without justification and that they were not involved in any military activity. Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: There is no consensus, but some argue that universities may have been damaged due to their proximity to military operations rather than intentional targeting. Attacks on Ahli and Indonesian Hospitals Agreement that Israel lied: Many humanitarian organizations, including the "International Red Cross," state that these hospitals were civilian targets and there was no military justification for the attacks. Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some recognize the strategic military context but argue that the attacks on hospitals were unjustified and disproportionately harmed civilians. Killing Women in Church Shelters Agreement that Israel lied: Reports from humanitarian organizations dismiss any intention by Israel to target women sheltering in churches, calling these claims unfounded. Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some reports acknowledge that churches were affected, but there is no clear evidence that the targeting of civilians in churches was intentional. Hostages Returning Pregnant Agreement that Israel lied: No verifiable evidence has been provided to support the claim that hostages returned pregnant due to Hamas. Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some sources acknowledge that reports may have been exaggerated but believe certain claims could have a basis. Destroying Every Single Gazan University Agreement that Israel lied: There is no evidence to substantiate the claim that every university in Gaza was destroyed on purpose, and many organizations argue that the destruction was largely due to military operations. Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some believe that the universities were hit by collateral damage during military operations rather than intentionally targeted.

@Raze This war isn't legitimate at this point and lost public support here too. This is Netanyahu's way to stall and survive at the expense of Hostages, soldiers and Palestinians lives.

@gambler The fact that this person is unreliable doesn’t cancel out what happened. Are mass killing, burning people alive in their homes, murdering people in front of their families not outrageous enough already? What’s the point of these shameless attempts to downplay what happened on Oct7? I think all this is doing is making your side shoot itself in the foot. This strategy doesn’t make your side's position be more respected but it does the opposite. Of course rape occurred. Even if it exaggerated in some Israeli reports, hamas’s actions were barbaric, medieval, and far from anything resembling legitimate “resistance" and nothing you say will change that.