Nivsch

Great. I added this explanation to a newer post.

Yes this is actually the best I can answer in this case. good enough for me. Why the evolution is going towards consciousness and love if it does not help to survival? Or it DOES help, to the well being of the giant mind. Even though the giant mind does not have to survive at all, but it wants to feel good (maybe) same as the human mind. Is today there more consciousness and love in Earth than before humanity or even before animals?

@Cody_Atzori hey Cody. It's impossible to really know where a person is at. you can assume only in general lines (center of gravity of him). A person can be mainly Blue but with 3% of turquoise and you will never know it (and its significant). You have to be very flexible and NEVER think that someone is "below" you because it is not correct. But, you can work with a thing, that you realize in real-time, like a specific behaviour of a person you think is unhealthy, and just make him see that. You cannot convince him to grow to anything but his current stage, but you can light his shadows when you see it. That can help him. Of course there are extreme cases which in them you CAN tell that a person is really below you like cruel or not-democratic leaders, or if a person is from premitive culture. Even then, there are still things he can teach you! But you cant tell it in the ordinary population that are in your culture.

would do differently? only in health and education I know what a yellow party would do differently. In Health - reform the entire health system to be at least 50% based on Nature. In Education - education suitable to the Child stage on the spiral (teach him his stage + the next one). But in all the other sections below I dont know. My party I voted for (B&W) plan for Israel is, in main points: 1. Separateness from the Palestinians and establish permanent borders. 2. Build common conversation between all the sectors of the state (Jews, Arabs, seculars, religious, Ultra Orthodoxes, etc). 3. Caring for all the sectors with health, education, money etc. 4. Promote Religous and Ultra Orthodox WOMEN because they are the most discriminated, and Equalize profit for every women and men (for the same jobs). 5. Every person will be able to Marry not only thourgh Orthodox marriage but also in cons/reform/civil marriage. and LGBTQ also will marry and also have children from a surrogate mother in israel (and not only abroad like today). 6. Economy - Growth, but with detailed plans for weak sectors. reduce poverty, caring for people with disabilities, old people. Kind of hybrid between capitalism and socialism i think. 7. Traffic - Establishing a Common Traffic - people will go to work in groups to reduce traffic jams. 8. Clean the system (as much as we can) from corruption and defend corruption exposers. 9. Promote social workers. My question is: What an imaginary stage yellow party would do differently in sections 1-9?

of the left-center sector today, has nothing to do with the communism and socialism of the cruel regims? There is a very populist comparison that the right-wing capitalists like to do between left-center economic phylosophy TODAY and the violence caused by socialism and its a very false comparison. I have introduced to my friends in facebook the blue, orange and green stages via 2 short videos with an example of my life which in I spoke about every stage, and i got good comments. For the next video i want to connect the stages to the economic issue and show people that stage green (which in are most of left-center today) cannot do anything that the old school socialism did, but i am not sure how to show that. yes stage green is sensitive and aware of the suffering of others and blue is binare and rigid and therfore only blue can do cruel and violence socialism. but than, people can claim "but communism was also established because suffering of people under capitalism". than i felt stuck and i dont know how to answer this kind of claim.

I felt it strongly yesterday. When i felt less loved (relative to others) by people in a group, ESPECIALLY when it comes from people I very like and appreciate, and I think they like me less than they like others (true or not, this is what I felt at that moment). Than the ego turn into a lava spread out from a volcano. You are like 99% the red vMeme, and I admit that in that moments, I really dont care if people in the group will smoke the particles from this lava. Until I will return to feel liked! Until than - i really dont fucking care. The whole truth from my eyes in that moment is the importance for me to feel liked again by the people i like. Selfish or not, for the ego this is the most right thing in the world. Of course i do the steps strategicaly (thats why its 99% red but 1% orange;)) and show them diplomaticaly and in a good way, that they were wrong. The whole "tribe" is containing 60 people and those 3 that i talked about last post (but one of them i really like and therfore got hurt) are also members of the major whatsapp group (of 60).

Something like this yes

@hamedsf thanks man. I like your answers as always. Very appreciate it. I talked to them and show them what i felt. I really dont know why he didnt defend me. It something i cant umderstand because for me is very automatic to defend something (especially if is a friend of mine) that other people are talking behind his back. But at least i talked to him and showed him exactly what i felt and why.

Thanks ill watch And you are right

I will defend that person in front of the group. I dont know if Leo will think its connected enough to the forum. For me its maybe a regular argument with friends, BUT i feel that precisely this forum is the place that can bring out very smart insights that maybe i dont see now, and can improve my relationship with people and make me learn better about understanding social situations. I think i understand well, but no without problems, and i really want to be more socially clever. Even tough its a very daily topic, i think that the conversation can be high quality! The story IN SHORT: I was not ok about someone in one whatsapp group and I didnt realize my talking about politics made him stressed and angry about me (i thought he was just "arguing" and debating). Now they dont want me back in the group even tough i apologized him. Actually they have like inner "clique" in the group (4 people in group out of 8 people) so now i know better why these 4 people dont want me back, even tough the mistake i did was only about one od them and i apologized ro him. My friends in this group (real friends i meet in my/their home very often) were NOT defend me when someone started to talk very bad about me. It was shocking Its uncatchable foe me. I would always defent my friends if it were them. It just a whatsapp group. What a big deal??Yes, right, but it hurt me because is a tiny group of 8 people that im in it since 2014 and have social conversations that i liked and enjoyed. But now this clique dont want me to back, and i have real friends there (2 that are NOT in this clique).

How a friend of mine that is much deeper than those silly superficial people wasn't defend me it still sound weird for me. He is has much more high values than them. Thats why it is surprised me. @Smurfinstein @CreamCat your are right. The need of people to be loved in a group with all cost is just probably survivle behaviour wired in us but i dont sure its convincing enough explanation. I was lucky to scroll back two weeks in my friend phone (he permited me) to see it.

The mushroom you eat changes your entire perception. The only way you can keep saying reality is not physical at all, is if a placebo mushroom/placebo 5meo has the same effect as the real thing.

I didn't

@Leo Gura If you trick your friend and give him a placebo mushroom/5meo, still he will feel the same things like if he would took real psychedelics? I know that you are probably mean to something else that i cant fully get yet, but i'm still interested to know what do you think about plcebo vs real.

@Serotoninluv ? like your answer. I had an impression (maybe wrong impression. If Leo see this - fix me if I was wrong) that Leo meant that EVERYTHING is imagination and/or everything is non-physical.

Maintining the healthy sides of your stage (for example Orange) WITHOUT facing the crises of the stage. 99.9% of the people, in MY opinion, sooner or later, will have to understand why they will need to adopt values of next stage, and only their suffering forces will be able to get them out of the orange matrix. I think its very unlikely to live just an healthy orange without feel its limits never in your life. I think that our role, if we want the better for others, is JUST to show them what is found outside the matrix. In other words to make them know the other stages and their values and the fact that Spiral Dynamics exists Thats it. I heard that the attitude of the SDI center is to make the spiral healthier. But, if you do it in a way that you "protect" other people in your organization from seeing the unhealthy sides of their stage, you are actually HURT them! It is healthy for them to feel their own crises too. I dont know what actually is their attitude, I just claiming that the desire to make your organization 'healthy' (what SDI center say they want to do) is not nessesarily what is the most healthy to your workers. If you really think about the society or your country as a whole, You will need to give up a little of your organization health. Or won't you need that? What do you think? At least, I think I found the answer in how to make Israel society progress - just to make as much people as i can to know the model. Thats enough challenging for itself i think.

Every new insight, every new feeling, every mystical experience CAN be explained by "neural changes" in the brain. There are trillions of neural connections in the brain and every new change in some connections can bring with it a new feeling and new experience. So how can we know the brain doesnt does it all? Note: I DO want that the only-physical paradigm will collapse, but I can't get convinced this is the case.

@Merkabah you are also right but in the other hand words and theory (and books, And forums...) are still effective tools, not instead, of course, but in addition to exercise. And i do exercises daily. One Similar example: No matter how much you exercise, how can you know that "infinite intelligence" is not just biological and evolutional phenomena? You have trillions of cell connections and it can accumulate information from millions of years. Thats enough to feel Infinite to you. It debunks logic and debunks reasoning, but STILL can be only biological. That what makes me feel uncomfortable because everything saying here can be turned out to be not true or only partially true.

@undeather I do exercises daily

@flowboy not the ego, I afraid of horror movie things to appear real and thats the reason. I dont know how it affect me, maybe Ill start to see a big spider and ill feel it 100% real? For example. Again i dont know if it is likely with mushroom. And yes, graduately is more responsible. You can laugh.

@hamedsf your are real. I am not imagine you, and you know that! No matter that you and I we both the same because we cant control ourselves (I discovered it during mindfulness and anxiety periods) and also we cant control each other. Thats why me and other are the same thing - we are ONE. Thats how ME understand what Leo means by oneness.

@Consilience I feel many times that reality reminds me think that i forgot, like i see and then ahhh right i forgot. Reality creates my toughts not less then my toughts create reality.

After read it now I still can't (even that I want to!) be convinced that is not the brain which creates the consciousness. But I will read your message more times and maybe i will understand it differently later.

Of course i cant know i just tried to understand what exactly you meant when you said that its all imagination - the raw vision or just what we think the things are. But i am also admit that right now i cant think differently about the raw vision. I cant be really open to the option its imagination, because real day time is very continiuous, logic (your blue chair will never turn itself to red for example) and it all looks just so realistic, stable and logic. But when you are dreaming or imaging, the plot of the story is messy and its all bunch of unconnected pictures.

@hamedsf oh ok the format of the forum sometimes confuse me, and thank you! ? i glad you like them! The thing is that when you are imagine or dreaming something its all messy and the plot of the story is jumpy and its all pictures which arent connected to one another, but during the day the picture is continiuous, realistic, tidy, logic. Your chair always looks the same, and reality often remind me things that when it happens i feel there is no chance i am hullucinate it. When ill remeber an example ill add it.