Nivsch

@MLKFan Green people still use rational thinking they have learned from orange. Green doesnt cancel that but only add more styles of thinking. For example green scientists will be rational but also much more intuitive and creative. Orange thinks that intuition is like a religion and misleading thinking we should avoid. Orange uses rationality as an ideology and the 'only good way' to think. Green uses rationality only when he thinks its nessesary.

Meditation and enlightment are HUGH things. I am doing meditation for 2.5 years so far and it one of the most important things i have in life. and i know i have long way to go and I know that I am still very far from the level of enlightened people. But, we also have brain which is planned to survive. and this brain includes within all its experience from millions of years. And no matter how enlightened you will be - if you dont have connections and relationships with people, you will feel emotional pain, which its goal is to push you back to your tribe in order to not get eaten by a tiger... so even if people are surrounding you, but you are overthinking and you live too much in your head - your sub-consiouse brain will suspect you are alone, and it will turn itself into "alone" mode, and pour cortizol into your bloodstream. You can say "but meditation can change the brain". yes, but you cannot change the core-stracture of it - the essence of its stracture that is planned to keep you alive. In other words - you CAN be enlightened and you can also know that you are NOT your brain. true... but you still HAVE brain, and if it doesnt get its needs - it will hurt you. Excactly in the same way that you can be enlightened and still have strong abdominal pain. its not different. I started to realized lately that everytime i have strong interesting in something (even very positive issue) and im SO into that issue and it lasts several days (and i'm live in my head almost completely) - after few days i get much more anxious about topics that are completely different from the issue i was doing in that week. its just happeing because the reason above. the topic of the anxiety is just an excuse for the brain to show you that you are anxious. so it made me think that no matter how much insights i will have and how much meditation i'll practice - I allways have to feel connected to people in order to feel good.

@Shadowraix i agree with you that people cant solve ego-backlash. I meant that i think a significant part of the ego backlash is just the fact that the over-sinking in the topic itself (self growing, self actualization, theory, practice and etc.) Make you more isolated and make you feel different from other people and thats creates emotional difficulties. What i trying to say is that even tough those things are important, the balance between them and the other things in life is no-less important And than if you have balance - the ego backlashes you feel will be much easier and include only the core mechanism of the backlash (the mind's desire to maintain homeostasis) without the isolation effect. Iam not saying i am right and you are wrong. Maybe i need people much more than you. Maybe you see things i dont. I am not trying to convince and to compete anyone, but to add my point of view to the thing. Agree to disagree is also ok ?

Modiin, Israel ?? And half of the time in Tel Aviv ???

@Shadowraix you can change your brain a lot (and i can't underestimate the potential, because if i were i wouldnt watch leo's videos and write in the forum) but you cannot make a fish to be a bird. There is limit for how changable we can be. Fish will always need the water to breath and bird will always need the air. Write me this again next time you have strong ego-backlash and tell me you wouldn't able to avoid a good amount of it if you were more with people and less in your own routine which would created much more balance for your mental well being.

I can say that i'm alone but in the same time i am one with everything? Which means that the "alone" you mean is different in its meaning from the "alone" which i think of? Like we use the same word but not exactly the same meaning? Because it seems to me that it is impossible to be alone (in the original naive meaning of the word) without triggering the survival mechanisms of our brain. Maybe you right and we are all one thing and this is the reality (its becase every cause has infinite effects and every effect has infinite causes?) But the brain doesnt think like that. It may help you emotionally but from biologically point of view we cannot cheat our brain all the time. Sooner or later it will need physical and psychological interaction with other brains, in order to not send you painful signals (excactly like your stomach that would send you "starving" signals if you wouldnt eat for several hours and more). ? Thats what i think.

And thats the reason we are all one organism and there is no such a thing "connection" between people?

@Andreas why it proves? We have different genetics. Only identical twins i think have close to equal genetics.

@Andreas the question is how big is the genetic difference. I can give an example of me and my brother that we both obviously grew up in the same house and family (same psychology and same environment) and still we are significantly different people, and that is also because our genetics differences.

The environment and the way of living has an hugh inpact of which genes will play a significant role and which genes will be supressed and shutted off, so i think it must be both as serotoninluv says.

@Truth Addict ?

Leo gave some good points and i want a bigger list. Becuase we lost the election in Israel and the two sectors (cons. Vs liberals) remained exactly the same size (which means the conservatives won again....) - I want to teach the liberal (orange-green sector) activists the yellow strategy to make them the ability to go meta and make blue-orange people recognize the necessity of stage green. So orange limits that i know: 1. Capitalism damage our health and environment. 2. More money wont make you satisfied. 3. We all want to be part of social communications. What can i say more to help people see stage green?

@Emerald Thanks a lot! Do you have examples of chalenging the peripherals of orange (in that same way)?

@Emerald could you give me an example of a question i can ask conservative person which is cutting the less visible walls of his belief? Your wrote to ask him about the value itself but it still difficult for me to understand what actually can i ask him.

@Zizzero thank you for the in-depth answer. I want to make Israel a country i can proud of, like marine-sided north european country (for the beginning deep stage green country is sufficient to me ? ) and doing more liberal policy for the citizens and minorities from any kind and LGTBQ rights. Right now 55% of the population in israel is blue-orange and force ALL of us right-wing depressive government which doesnt care of the micro problems of the citizen and cares only the macro things (like a machine ?‍♂️) and i want to make soft-right wing people to move just a little bit into the center and thats enough for them to change their vote in the next election.

@bejapuskas what did you do and what is the main stage of your mum and of yours? What did she start practicing?

What we have to do as a political group of young activists - to stop all our activities? Or only give flyers and show what our party did or planning? What would you do if you were in a political group and try to do yellow strategy?@bejapuskas @Zizzero

I understand but what to say to them?

? how do you know them?

Sorry for "flooding" its a special week. Next time i'll try to send one topic per 1-2 weeks. There are 2 main parties this election in israel: 1. "Blue&white" (our flag colors) - liberal pluralistic, soft capitalism orange-green values. my vote. 2. "Likud" - conservative very capitalistic blue-orange values. The dilemma is that i want my blue&white party to win, but than, i wont be able to teach our young activists the Spiral Dynamics model, because they wont be open to learn it, because - we won, so we dont need to learn something new... and it remain like this for 2-4 years! and it will dissapoint me. But if we loose, it will be perfect opportunity to make them open to the model and i want them SO much to learn it from me. So i will teach them yellow style of thinking to make us win the NEXT elections. There is a deeper question here - what will make our country progress faster in the long run - Winning now, or loosing? I dont expect you to know the answer but its very interesting. So i feel in like an inner conflict. Because in one hand i want to win, but in the other hand i want the model to flourish among my party friends and activists. And it will flourish only if we loose. middle-way scenario - we loose but still strong enough and the government will be 50% us and 50% likud. worst scenario - we loose and the government is gonna be the most religous and conservative EVER in israel! (New extremely right-wing parties in likud coalition). Can be a little dangerous for the independence of the supreme courte, and who knows what more. Depressive...

@Good-boy he will be back It is like an harmonic oscillation and it seems that now he need to also do other things... Its a phase, and we all like that. Just accept and flow with it...

Because i cant find any prove for it. Karl marx doesnt seems like a blue person. Maybe the phylosophy itself isnt blue, but that real implementation of this theory can only be done by blue regime? Because it written that karl marx communism was a response for the capitalism, which is the opposite to what spiral dynamics shows us. Because in this case it seems like blue communism was a response for orange capitalism... cannot be happen in spiral dynamics. I am arguing with a right-voter friend and trying to explain him that the extreme right (in the politics scale) were originally established communism, but he argues that the left is originally communist because when israel established in 1948, the far-leftists parties were inspired by the soviet communism which is true.

@Serotoninluv ? We lost the election ? Equality with the 2 main party seats but only conservatives can build a coalition (they have the majority of parlament members in all the cons. Parties). So right now, i want to start teaching as much people as i can in the left-center sector the spiral dynamics model. What is the best way to make classic right-wing people to move leftward? Is the best way is to teach them stage orange limits? Where can i find a big list of stage orange limits? Leo gave a nice list of some good limits but i want a bigger list.

@Joseph Maynor but what about stalin's communism? stalin cannot be green. He is so brutal he tortued and murdered people so the communism of stalin must be blue. Green in far more sensitive and aware of the feeling of other people that maybe green can be social democratic and thinking about communism as an theoretic idea but never really establish it in reality.

@Wyatt @SgtPepper thank you!