Nivsch

👍 I like how you summarized it. I hope the hostages are also taken into account by the government as much as possible, because here in the news studios from how the people there and the commentators are speaking, I got the impression everyone in Israel understand that to bring back the hostages is a top priority and the war cannot be won without getting them back.

A Palestinian authority regime, with the help and a security co-operation with Israel OR with other forces is a healthy situation, like what happens today in the west bank while Israel and the palestinian authority work together to prevent hamas from growing there, which is a strong interest of both Israel and the palestinian authority.

I choose to believe she is honest and authentic in her speech and emotions she showed in it, because it won't be fair to dismiss it. But I think what needs to be understood is that without removing this extreme terror organization, nobody will be in a better place, not Israelis nor the palestines, and while she chooses to focus only on one side's problems, without thinking deeper on why Israel does what it does, she actually give this terror organization exactly what it wants and play into it's hands. It does not mean she can't say for example that Israel's attacks need to be more surgical because maybe there is room to improve that. But these simplistic moral preacheses only make us stay stuck and are like stick on the wheels that delay the arrival of the necessary change.

Shifting? I dont understand what you mean here.

I understand what you say and you have an interesting point, but I think that in the field of blue armys Israel is quite confident in its superiority on the other armys in the middle east. As it also been proven in the past.

Agree. Probably only a more stage blue leadership like the more moderate palestinian authority at the beggining.

@_Archangel_ This is immoral for Israel to agree a ceasefire as long as our 240 hostages are there. Also it will help hamas get organized better to the fight and kill more soldiers for nothing. Also this is worth mentioning that eliminating hamas will do good long term to the Gazaians much much more than anything else the hypocrite world will want Israel to do in that time. Dont get confused with humanitarian aid which to this Israel agree all the time. You want a chance the world will respect you then respect yourself first.

I don't know. Its not about an agreemt right now but to do good tactic moves. The palestinians were offered countless times to get a state in the west bank and they have always rejected every offer.

To eliminate hamas and give the control to the palestinian authority with the help of another forces/IDF. After that to stop the settlements expansion and even declare on it officialy. Then we will see whats next.

You have to really consider if any other option is possible given a terror organization regime in the place who TAKES gazaian's resources to himself as much as possible, and of course wants to destruct Israel. Whould you valunteer to give it also free air and water spaces? how naive the critisizm of Israel can be. This is so easy to make those absurd claims from thousands of miles away. Also ask yourself If they even have the ability to supply themselves with many of these things and in the proper amount. The southern border is controlled by Egypt by the way. Ask them why they are so afraid to get gazaians into their land. maybe they understand the situation even better than Israel. Slogans I can also drop to the air and it will sound very convincing I promise you 🌈

I am not sure I understood the analogy. Oslo greement tried to make them quite independent what made the terror worse with suicide bombs in Israeli cities twice a week! Israel should have go in there from new and conquer parts of the west bank. It seems to me you don't want to discuss seriously so unless you explain more I stop here. I dont know why you feel this hatred and I dont remember from where you are. You can share if you want but I think you just want to argue.

@Twentyfirst Doesn't it fair to divide the land almost equally between two populations that both have fair claims on it? Can you explain it? How so? Israel completely left Gaza in 2005 allowing them to do whatever they want. Why is the West Bank a prison in your opinion? Because of whom? because of hamas. Why you so hate Israel? BTW from where are you?

Agree with you this is a big part of the considertions.

I want to ask you to read this ⬇️ and add anything you know and want to the discussion. Just using slogans won't help the discussion and that I can also do.

@Loveeee No thats how your brain wants it to be.

Leo but from where did you get the 1:100 ratio? Because the estimated number of hamas terrorists who have been killed within the land of gaza strip is 3000-4000 according to IDF.

I understand thats what you think. I think differently. Also you see victimhood and bravery in a different way than I am. The Israeli soldiers who are risking their lives right now are probably also cowards according to this theory I guess. Ok, everyone may think however they want.

@Twentyfirst Just from curiosity I would like to know what is "weak" in your eyes and what is "strong"? How you were in the past? how are you today?

Dont know, I was surprised.

I am not sure I understood the second sentence can you explain it?

Yes I agree the expansion doesn't help and maybe do harm and need to be stopped to show good intentions and seriousness. This change is bad because it weakens the court and here this is especially problematic because we dont have a constitution and that can lead to a too powerful government. His narcissistic point of view puted all our society into an internal clash between two sides, an auto immune like condition that weakened us. But now we have united back after october 7th.

The education here is about the war of indepenence. I think the awareness to the problems Jews did to arabs in this war is highly partial because honestly I also wasn't aware until recent years. You can add things you know, but from what I know and read, the arabs were the side that resist co-existing the most, and started in 1947 the war after the UN's distribution plan has been published. Can we assume that if the arabs were just accept the UN plan, and did nothing, so there would be nothing? Just to think about that. The vast majority of arabs abandoned their homes by themselves what doesnt make the situation good because they felt trauma anyway. The jews were quite deffensive at the beggining, and only after their survival and existance was really threatened to a critical point, only then they started to actively conquer lands and not always in moral ways. But yes, during this war there were active deportations of arabs from their homes but I read that most of the deportations were because the arabs resisted in violence in the first place, but not always. The question is - did the jews came here and just started a violence or let the people evacuate by themselves? Even if the answer is the latter, it still doesnt make it good because deportation is deportation. But again, the active deportations were most likely most of them only after the jews were almost been killed according to what I wrote above assuming this is the full picture. So I assume I can smell who is the (much?) more problematic side here and it is not the jews. But maybe I am biased. Add things from your own knowledge if you want.

Haha not true

@Loveeee You overlook the fact that what hamas does all day long is to hide behind civilians because otherwise it has 0% chance to survive. This is its full-time job. Its #1 survival strategy and therefore Its main activity during the day and it does this with the most manipulative ways you can think about. When Israel has tens of thousands terror targets to attack, and has this huge time pressure to rescue its hostages, to not have many mistakes in this kind of situation is impossible.

Exactly.