Nivsch

@zazen I want to show you an another perspective to consider: The six-days war as a self defense operation: https://israelforever.org/interact/blog/international_right_self_defense_six_day_war/ See how bigger the enemies army is in comparison to Israel, which made an existential threat on israel in yom kippur war.

@lina send me a link to where bibi says he target civilians and than we can talk.

I saw it now. There is problems with the settlements in the west bank and I have a lot of criticism on the right-wing actions. Still, the person in this video is highly biased. I lost him after he said "This even more severe than what hamas did" and "Israel is deliberately target civilans" which is a 100% biased low quality unnuanced crap.

@Leo Gura Hamas has to be destroyed but with minimal damage to innocents and I want to believe Israel do its best.

@lina This is a very complex situation. Israel must put pressure on hamas to return the captives. Yes, there is a cost to that in humen lives in gaza but look how hard the situation is. Also think about how hamas is brutal to gaza's civilians in day to day life and the poverty they live in anyway because of hamas. In order to the long term to be better even for gaza's civilians, they are costs to pay in the short run.

Hamas installed traps all over gaza to wait for israeli soldiers. without destroying buildings, hundreds of Israeli soldiers will die for nothing. Remind you that there are NO civilians in those buildings after IDF asked them to live. Please take this perspective also into accout and don't be so biased.

@lina The process of Israel establishment wasn't at all "A massacre Israel did" but a complicated dynamic which in both sides did things one to another that ended up in Israel establishment. Without force, Israel couldn't exist at all given the language our neigborhood understands.

@lina I'm sorry for what you are feeling and I think that as long as hamas control gaza, the civilians there will keep suffering from hamas directly and from the consequences of his actions. I hope that after hamas will be eliminated during the next few months, gaza civilians will get another leadership which is relatively moderate like the palestinian authority in the west bank or maybe even better the egyptian leadership, or a combination of both.

Hamas has trapped so many roads and buildings in gaza to become his fortrees in case that Israel will try to go there. Without heavily destroying them from the air first, Israel will lost a huge amount of soldiers lives for nothing.

@Karmadhi Please see also what Lila wrote. Israel actually takes care and hospitalized the terrorists it catches including from the last event! Also they have great condition in the prison they can even get a degree. Many israelis complain that Israel is TOO humanic to them. This is an extremely common conversation here. Yes this is true that the occupation of the west bank and the friction with the palestines IS corrupting. But please be nuanced. Israel is much much more complicated than you think.

@Karmadhi Israel actually warn civilians and tell them to evacuade, but hamas stress them to not evacuade. Hamas wants them to be its own human sheild so when they will die, hamas will use this to show it to the world. This is how toxic hamas is and this is who we are dealing with. Unfortunately in this situation its impossible to not harm anybody who is innocent but I agree we have to do the maximum effort to fight selectively as we can, but in the other hand Israel doesnt have the privilage to not deactivate this organization. After this trauma, without deep response from Israel and without a real game change in the region, Psychological changes in Israelis minds and the nations around us might put a serious danger to Israel chances to still exist. Now this is really a no choice war.

This is really only the far right wing here who wants that.

@Ajay0 This is not how it works in my opinion. Actually Saudi Arabia will (even subconsciously) respect Israel much more if Israel will fight hamas seriously this time. Part of the reason the Israeli-Saudi relationships are warming up is BECAUSE Saudi sees Israel as a strong enough player who can restrain Iran desire for power which is a big threat for Saudi Arabia too.

But they treat their own people very similarly! Their mentality / value system is, in my opinion, the main factor.

Agree. The current government we have is a hugh problem.

I think this is has to do with where they are found within the Healthy-Unhealthy spectrum of their stage.

@PurpleTree which will probably change their state but not their stage and their relation to another women

But we left gaza state in 2005 fully to hamas. Dont you think they have to take responsibility of this area and their citizens?

*samaria English is much more difficult to write right than to listen apparently.

@Leo Gura good question I am also struggling with. People say its because all the troops were in judea and sammaria but its really a hard question will be asked months to come.

Speaking in the official TV channels here about ~1000 who crossed the board and start shooting Israeli civilians.

Thank you for sharing this. This is purely ISIS just with another name. Very difficult to watch.

Right. They are also spread on many stages of development as you said and i agree with this. But hamas do want.

@PurpleTree The far right-wing is indeed not share my values and represents merely 10% of the Israelis.

Sorry if I am not seems to talk calmly about the broad more conscious picture in this thread (as I always try to see in another areas) but as an Israeli I feel I have to battle a bias of fake symmetry I see here a lot between allegedly two sides of the same coin which is not the case in reality.