Nivsch

Everytime (or at least i think that everytime) when I have a day of a relatively excitement and over physical energy - there is also a day of payoff - after few days of after even a week - when i feel anxious and "wrong" in my emotions. In the past it was also a month of 'high' (relatively) and then a month of anxiety. Maybe i have Cyclothymia i dont know. OCD I know i have.

This week I created a "spiral dynamics" topic in (Hebrew) wikipedia, but they say I have to bring proves of "scientific relations" (or scientific refferences) to the model, and I didnt find those. Do you know where can i find it? Thanks

Not well established?? 20 years of research is not enough?

Mainly green. But significant orange needs for self fullfilment (especially in singing) and need to be seen and recognized. And 25% of yellow because i'v been several years exploring my ocd and my mental highs and lows, and how my mind works and doing meditation techniques for 2.5 years and most of my insights i got are from the last 1-2 years.

SIA music. Deep green and i feel that today she has maybe first signs of (a bit) yellow in her songs.

Yes, I will try to do this sometimes - when its not a very deep value (that ill be able to let it go in the argument) but still not so easy to let go.

I think i just realized, that everytime I feel that the truth is the fullest on my side and the other side in the argument is surely wrong (or knows less) and this feeling is maintained for a while - 0.5 hour/ 1 hour / more - I will feel less mental stability and more anxiety. No matter what the content of the argument is - may be the most positive topic. Its absolutely No depends on the content. It just my experience that I accumulated. Thats how i feel it works on me. The reason in my opinion is that it makes you feel above others >> it isolates you psychologically from others >> it makes you feel more alone >> less protected >> triggered survivle biological mechanisms. Precisely when other people make you realize you are NOT right (or right only partially and they 50% right too) it makes you feel more "normal", more grounded and more stable and calm! What do you think? Do you feel it too?

I feel that in the default position our mind wants to be the right one, and taking the other side point of view is more difficult. Because our mind wants to survive and if you are anxious you will have more chances to survive (cause the deep subconsious brain is wired to jungle life).

Exactly

Why its not in the thread? I interested the most in raising people up in my political activity (since i learned the model).

@Leo Gura I watched the whole video today and yes I learn new things from it, but i feel this part 1 video was aimed mainly to orange libertarians people, because I (as green mainly) agree with almost everything you said in the video about the nessecity of government and that government should promote Love in the society and this is exactly my point of view. My survivle agenda in my political activity is to protect equality, minorities rights, LGBTQ rights and etc values (my party values). I didnt feel it was about yellow-turquise politics but maybe you are planning it for the next parts(?)

What I think right now is that I can go meta (in political context) ONLY because of spiral dynamics. If I didnt hear about this model - I don't think i could go meta today. I think that the whole point of being deep-yellow is to develop the motivation to be meta naturally(!) Without knowing any model, and i dont think I am there. Also I dont know how i will know when i will be there haha. On what you asked: 1. Whats the grounding truth of any ideology? I think the survivle urges. Especially in right wing its very clear. In left wing is less trivial, but Left-center sector still has strong survivle instincts - to defend the sanity and sensitivety of our society and when those values are treathened it feels like a hugh danger to the collective self and to the personal self too i think. 2. Is it possible to hold and absolutely true point of view? I am not sure about that, because what would you say about banning or excluding your son/daugther from the family because s/he is attracted to the same sex? Wrong always i think. And What about "there is no absolute true point of view" - point of view? I think its also going full circle and kill itself. In spiritual conetext however, I can go meta today because I training mindfulness techniques for 2.5 years (and will improve in that during the time).

Even though i have a list of good things from every stage, i dont feel yellow. I still feel much more at Green stage because green seems to me much more crucial (than lower stages) in adding "soul", taste and meaning to life, and I find myself passionate only about green values in my political activity (and no the lowers), but good sides are: 1. We all have to breathe, eat and drink i think. 2. We know how to make basic interactions. some are better in that and some have more difficulties and more homework to do in purple. 3. Assertivenes is important (healthy side of red). 4. Law and order are important to prevent chaos and violence. 5. Personal financial managing is an important skill. Competition from time to time is a good thing. Achivements and fullfilment is valuable and have its legitimate place. Me myself have strong drive to fulfill myself in music (singing). Still feels to me a shallow list... but i dont know what to write more. what more i have to know to go deeper in yellow? We can do a brain-storming and help people here to improve. Orthodoxy, sorry, but i think its just dark and not good at all. Dis-acceptance of LGBTQ - wrong. Acceptance is important. Chasing only after money - very wrong in my opinion. I dont have anymore good things to say about lower stages. And also i guess its not only about stages... we need more things to know in order to be more yellow. But what? I do meditation techniques for 2.5 years, I see actualized.org many videos. I read books about happines mainely (some psychological and some more scientific) I exploring my OCD for 6 years every day and i have insights of how my mind works and better know today what to do to be much healthier (mental health) and I feel much better today than previous years.

Thank you very much! ? By the way I read again the answer you gave me 3 months ago about moving people up the spiral and you said that winning the election is not about moving people up, but about convincing people in my sector (that believe in my agenda) to just go vote. But I think that to make it happen we need to do a very sharp campaign that based on fear from the opponent (Netanyahu in our case) and how he dangers our democracy (which is may be the truth nowadays) and this i think can be the most effective way to win. But in the other hand it might polarized more our society and im not sure if it is good for the long run, because polarizing the society may stuck the people and slow down or even stop their natural drifting up in the spiral. So this strategy might be a double-edged sword.

Really like this. Beautifull idea. Just from curiosity - the sunflowers on your picture are because it symbolizes knowledge (or symbolizes stage yellow?)

I think so too. My feeling is that even though Leo's videos are interesting to me and I do find things i relate in most of them, still Leo Jumps 100 Km higher sometimes and I feel I loose him. I think if he would gave me a ladder to climb on (in every video) it may be more effective. For example: Instaed of saying that you are god and explaining it in many ways that are all of them (30 minutes of the video) are high on the tree (!) and i can't see it no matter how much time Leo try to explain it. It can be better if Leo will say: "You are god because: 1. First I thought that... something more orangic scientific. 2. And after 2-3 years I understood that its actually... 3. And thats lead me (1-3 more years later) to think that you are .... and because of this you are ..... and because of this you are god! Give me the LADDER to climb up the tree. Show me all the route, all the line of thinking that made you reach to what you think now. And if you do that, the videos will be more effective to me. I really like Leo's videos also today, I just need this connection of the dots to make me the abilty to see better WHY Leo thinks what he think now.

And they are NOT right-wing. They are centered people (part of them more left, part of the very soft-right wing) with the same values of the moderate left (a lot from green values). I tell them "this will make you understand better EVERY political view you will hear from today and forever." And i wrote every week a couple of sentences on every stage in a friendly language. Today i suggested them the full summary I wrote, and said "that only will take you 20+ minutes to read" and until now only 2 people (out of 200+ members in this group) sent me a message that they want the summary. How it can be? You are supposed to to be very curious about it because its part of the activity you do! To know how to make other people believe in the party values.

Yes, in my opinion, a Green world of compassion to all living creatures, veganism, equality with healthy sides of prior stages too is BETTER than an orange dominant world or blue world. Yes, we need also all prior stages (healthy sides) in our life and behaviour every day, and still society who hasn't reached green and yellow yet, is less good than society who reached it, because there is less flexibility in this kind of society, less awareness, more suffering and more mental health and physical health issues to people. But if you put every stage alone - so then - indeed no stage is better as itself. Because no stage can live alone. Every stage must have the support of the prior just like we cant have a building with only 4th floor (without 1-3). I want to use yellow strategy to meet every person in HIS stage, and in that way to make the society less polarized and this is alone will help people move up and open to new stages, I think. Netanyahu is thriving under polarization conditions and he tries to polarized us all the time with his de-legitimating the left campaign. So what i want is to use yellow strategy to de-polarized the society. But i cant do it alone! Thats why i want other political activists to understand that, and do it too

Who is "their"?

Oh OK. I understand. Its weird because i feel like I am not different from them. I have the same liberal and equality values as them, I feel the same passion about those values like them, and I think that our values are MUCH better than those of anti-democratic and Orthodox people. But still i do attract enormously to Spiral dynamics and they don't (or much less than I). Thats why its seems weird to me. Maybe there is something i missing out here.

If they are political activists (center-left wing sector) and they want to take right-wing voters and move them more towards the center (they DO want because they are busy all the time on trying to convince right-wing voters to vote differently - vote us) = to move up them a bit in the spiral. so here is a model to help you to that! Thats why they supposed to be interested in the model because it may help them convince right wing voters to vote our centered party. Why it doesn't make sense? If we make people move up a little bit in the spiral = they will be more moderate and centered people = we will have more votes.

Do the "Do Nothing" method for 15-20 minutes every few hours. Also apply this method sometimes when you have an intrusive tought/feeling. Don't confuse 'Do nothing' as the regular meaning you know, with the 'Do nothing' in this video which is the true one. You have to exercise this method with a timer and only than you will be able to apply it in 'free space'. Always combine timer + 'free space' in doing this method. Applying only one of the above may not be effective enough (in my experience and opinion) because your brain can trick you in many ways and reduce the effectiveness when you do it only with timer or only when there is a tough thought. Everytime you feel your brain wants to think too strongly or has an urge to do something - hit the brakes! Wait, drink or eat something, take a deep breathe, and than continue to what you want to do - slowely This can shorten/soften significantly the ego backlash period. And also - be with family and friends a lot, especially during ego backlash times.

In obamas era it wouldnt happen.

But its not random because this model is about cultural values development and that is exactly what they want to do as a political activists - to make more people (from the right-wing) convinced in their values and vote for their (more liberal) party. In other words to move up stages.