Nivsch

I am not sure I understood the second sentence can you explain it?

Yes I agree the expansion doesn't help and maybe do harm and need to be stopped to show good intentions and seriousness. This change is bad because it weakens the court and here this is especially problematic because we dont have a constitution and that can lead to a too powerful government. His narcissistic point of view puted all our society into an internal clash between two sides, an auto immune like condition that weakened us. But now we have united back after october 7th.

The education here is about the war of indepenence. I think the awareness to the problems Jews did to arabs in this war is highly partial because honestly I also wasn't aware until recent years. You can add things you know, but from what I know and read, the arabs were the side that resist co-existing the most, and started in 1947 the war after the UN's distribution plan has been published. Can we assume that if the arabs were just accept the UN plan, and did nothing, so there would be nothing? Just to think about that. The vast majority of arabs abandoned their homes by themselves what doesnt make the situation good because they felt trauma anyway. The jews were quite deffensive at the beggining, and only after their survival and existance was really threatened to a critical point, only then they started to actively conquer lands and not always in moral ways. But yes, during this war there were active deportations of arabs from their homes but I read that most of the deportations were because the arabs resisted in violence in the first place, but not always. The question is - did the jews came here and just started a violence or let the people evacuate by themselves? Even if the answer is the latter, it still doesnt make it good because deportation is deportation. But again, the active deportations were most likely most of them only after the jews were almost been killed according to what I wrote above assuming this is the full picture. So I assume I can smell who is the (much?) more problematic side here and it is not the jews. But maybe I am biased. Add things from your own knowledge if you want.

Haha not true

@Loveeee You overlook the fact that what hamas does all day long is to hide behind civilians because otherwise it has 0% chance to survive. This is its full-time job. Its #1 survival strategy and therefore Its main activity during the day and it does this with the most manipulative ways you can think about. When Israel has tens of thousands terror targets to attack, and has this huge time pressure to rescue its hostages, to not have many mistakes in this kind of situation is impossible.

It won't be fair to say that Israel always does the perfect efforts to prevent civilians casualties and cannot be critisized and forced to be improved, so your critisizm is valid and understandable and has its place. At the same time, when we see how Israel reacted during previous operations is Gaza (from 2009 to 2021) we see that Israel military used warning and surgical tactics that honestly we can't see in any other military in the world. When it calm, this is as surgical as possible. When in war and given that time pressure, the number of terror targets to attack (up until now ~10,000 terror targets has been attacked), and the manipulative strategic of hamas, the chances of mistakes are sky rocketing. What needs to be understood is that the whole strategic of hamas and what it does all day long (because it knows IDF is stronger) is to internalize itself as deep as possible between the civilians and make this gordian knot as tight as possible. This is its #1 tactic and this is crucial for it to survive. And it uses every manipulation in the book to ensure that. The world just doesn't really understand this and fails to read the game board properly.

The problem is that 240 of our citizens (among them children and elderly) are now hostages by hamas and their physical and psychological nightmare (with all the respect to the gazaian hard situation) is ×100 more horrific. Every day that passes, their conditions are getting worse. Thats why Israel has a great time limit to put this physical pressure on hamas as fast as possible. The diplomatic ways alone have already been tried and failed.

Exactly.

@zazen But this guy represents barely a handful of % if not a fraction.

They can't survive without 20-30% support at least. For example, all the protests in Israel last year were because the citizens were afraid Netanyahu will change the regime to escape his trial. In a country like Israel didcatorship is not possible as long as the values composition throughout the society will stay western-like.

Leadership reflects a big chunck of the population.

@zazen just a clown from a tiny radical party.

"There is a silent agreement (in the Arab world) that Israel should go in there and eliminate hamas". https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzK8EiRtl3s/?igshid=MjN3MWcwc3I5YWg0

Do you think Israel targets civilians intentionally? As someone who live here from birth, know Israelis mentality and values and given Israel's careful strategy in previous operations (what you can't see in any other military in the world) i think it is highly unlikely.

@Emerald Ok sounds fair to me and I understand you. The right wing here is problematic in many ways mostly in the expansion of the settlements. About ousting people from the place they were live in can you explain more specifically what do you mean? What cases has disturbed you the most? And about the power imbalance?

Its not that you don't have part of the picture right, but I think it is easy to fall into one extreme. Both sides are intertwined in a very complicated dynamic. Israel left gaza in 2005 giving the keys fully to the palestinians to do everything that they want. Actually, thats what made hamas to take over gaza in 2007. Before 2005, when Israel sitted in gaza, the palestinian authority was in control in gaza and they were surely more moderate than hamas. Yes, the settlements expansion are a problem that make the palestinians be more extreme against Israel. But on the other hand, Israel wants part of jerusalem for very good reasons and also some villages around jerusalem (not be in enclave) so *part* of the occupation of the west bank is jistified. The arab world invade to Israel trying to kill us all even in 1948.

After 1200 murdered and 240 hostages who suffer right now in nightmare which is maybe and most likely 100 times more of any gazaian (not to cancel gazaian's situation but the world anyway talk almost only about them) so yes, I dont really think Israel has another option right now but to put the higher pressure possible on hamas. Do you mean that maybe what happens affect the sides in both ways? Disturb the relationships but also help too? See, I am not sure the palestinian authority cares too much of what happen in gaza but I am not an expert so dont really know what it does. The problem is that I really think that peace with red-blue culture won't be possible without also talk their language, and build a character they will respect, what almost anybody here not emphasize enough.

Yes I also don't like the expansion of the settlements. Its a problem. But to evacuate thousand of settlers is the extreme opposite and will show us as weak. What also have been proved to increase the terror. To stop the expansion, even to declare it officialy, but to still stay there with soldiers in the west bank, the settlements just where they are, and to keep the security co-operation with the palestinian authority, seems like the smartest strategy for now.

Do you mean here to the settlements in the west bank?

@Raze Actually the soldier who shot him was lying on the ground while did that which means most likely felt a real threat. That "stone" could be a grenade BTW Most of the world-wide comments support Israel there. Why to provoke in such a way to begin with? Personally I think the better way is to shoot on his legs. But I'm not an expert. Maybe they know something I dont. I dont like this video and I am not deny there are problems sometimes even in a (relatively to the rest) quite high morality army. But the problem is that those who are against Israel to begin with, will see every such video as if I would watch TV through a telescope. They cant be convinced because the complex picture doesnt matter to them. They have already chose a side and the only way to change their mind is if they themselves will want their mind to be changed.

@Raze There were hamas terrorists in the ambulance from what I understood and heard. Thats their all game 😅 This is a psychological war - their #2 function as a terror organization. For them this is like breathing. What else do you think they do? This things! Thay are busy all day long in this. They NEED it to their survival. To put international pressure on Israel. The west must do a switch in how he looks and grasps the game board.

Insult? Zionism is just a mental frame. Visit here and you will see that our society is not less "western" and developed than yours.

We can argue technically about torture, but the massacre of children in 7.10 is a fact.

Israel's society at its best 🍎🥑🥭📦📝 Every 1 out of 2 Israelis - 50% - go to volunteer these days! One the most pupular help here is agriculture in the Israeli villages near gasa strip that have lost its workers after october 7th. And also many more kinds of valunteering works. Just everyone try to help. I try to metiate it with some pictures/videos just to get the feeling of whats going on. VID-20231104-WA0007(2).mp4

👍 exactly they take it for granted. Seems to me like they are subconsciosely want to feel again the harm/rougness from the previous stages to grow themsleves and appreciate democracy again from new, by their own life lessons (and not from a golden spoon putted in their mouth as they have been grown). And thats why they crave so much to support the violent/animalistic side.