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@Lila9 wow I also just thought about it before I saw your message. When a giant shouty word is used to explain a situation ("genocide", "atrocities" etc) this is always or mostly an escape from seeing the bigger context, the validity of the other side's pov and like an emergency compensation word the amigdala fires you to do to feel comfortable and calm again.

@BlueOak This mathematics of definitions is meaningless to me when out of the context sorry. In 1940s in Germany there were also all of that done by the allies to defeat the nazis and much more extreme.

@BlueOak Every such term like "ethnic cleansing" is totally meaningless and no more than a slogan when being related out of the bigger context. In the bigger context, hamas kidnapped and murdered our people, left Israel no option but to fight back to eliminate him or at least 95% of him before it will agree to release them all. hamas is a gerilla organization knows it is weaker than organized militaries, hence developed through its evolution a strategy we can compare to a smart virus who uses healthy cells and also diguise itself to them, in order to survive. And when you have 10,000s terror targets to attack, it is impossible to think every single time how to hurt only terrorists, and not by mistake also healthy cells, even if you try your best.

@BlueOak I really don't think it is realistic to bring back the hostages by special operations, except for only couple of hostages to the at most. Only by deal. And thank you too! I appreciate that 🙏

And the other proposals? There were countless. See Anapolis conference with MANY mediators in the negotiations: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annapolis_Conference And sorry but to explode it all like a child is not serious. They have to understand we can't just trust them blindly after what they did, and to also do concessions. I am not saying Barack's offer was fair enough but there were so many with many more mediators in the negotiation process apart from Israel and palestine.

@zazen About the war I already explained what I think. I want to give them a state but they have refused every time. Again the settlements is a big problem and here this is israel's responsibility. Also to stop arresting children from time to time I don't like it at all. About the other slogans I am still not convinced and this is all sounds to me like a big balloon with a lot of air in it. I understand this is how they feel but they would feel it anyway as long as Israel exists.

@kenway These homes are probably empthy and if not empthy then probably populated by hamas people. This technique of cherry picking blurry stuff from the periphery and making them seen as the picture of IDF doesn't work on me. There never was and never be a symmetry between the two sides. And be thankful because any other western military would behave very likely much more dirty. You just hold IDF to be a tier 2 angle and then when it can't be a tier 2 angle you are complaining and say it is a devil. These games are transparent and embarrasing.

@BlueOak If we didn't have hostages to save, then we could argue about more creative ways to eliminate hamas as you suggested a month ago I remember and it was interesting to read. but as long as we have hostages that hamas didn't agree to release without the military pressure, I don't know if we could have another option.

Good luck with understanding the situation when you refuse to confront the emotions 7.10 might bring to you by denying and polishing techniques your mind does for you. After that, how can a fair and serious discussion be done in the first place?

I think this thread is already challenging enough goal to light 🤣😂

I answered here: Thats not what Israel want to do. See Israel's far reaching pragmatic steps in the last 5 years including the billion of dollars invested in a smart fence and all of that to avoid unecessary wars in all cost. The rest: I understand you feel pain from the situation, and I agree with you that Israel policy with the settlements is part of the problem, and also the overall relation and behaviour to the palestinians have to improve. But I don't agree with 90% of the critisizm about this war because of the explanation I linked to.

Almost every country started its life with an occupation. But only Israel is blamed for that. Sorry I don't buy it. The answer to that you will have to find in psychology and spirituality books, not in history. You could be fair and critisize the settlement in a constructive way.

Partially. You just now dumped the responsibility fully on Israel, because then you don't need to understand its perspective any more. Again, hamas ideology has deeper roots been expressed also in 1920s and 1930s before Israel was established, But even if I go with you and say theoretically this is "only" israel's fault (whats wrong but say for a moment it is)... Do you expect Israel a tier 2 understanding and then attacks Israel and let it be thrown under the bus because it failed to understand the situation to a tier 2 level? It is interesting, there are other societies you hold to such high standarts? or this is the case only when it comes to Israel? Can you see how much this is a clever defence mechanism against any possibility of really listening to Israel's perspective?

You are enormously underestimate the survival position Israel is found in. This is not only the physical survival as much as its identity survival according to the feeling and knowing we are so much better than those terorrists as we holds our values too, but when your friends and family who hold similar values don't believe you, and you have to prove them all when the virus took over you made them believe him(!) again and again. Dont take this words in a strict logical way but as an emotional metaphor to show the existential psychological serious crisis Israel is found in which is very real, and not less painful than if it was only a physical one. Then you will be in a position to understand better why her brakes are looser now against this virus (hamas).

Not a mature source. Such hateful and dark. Show me something serious and deeper that doesn't fueled by hate and not that transparent.

~50% of Israelis hate him and oppose his over nationalistic world view at least this is the impression I have got. They are already above that level.

From where is that? AJ doesnt count a decent source in my opinion.

Because evacuated northern Israel residents refuse to return to their homes until Hezbollah's Radwan force will be pushed away to northward of Litani river. And they are right. They don't want another 7.10 to happen. And yes, if radwan will be pushed northward diplomaticaly it will be the best way, but I doubt it can happen without force.

@_Archangel_ And you lack the experience of living in Israel for 36 years knowing its thinking pattern way (w-a-y) better than you. Thats why I feel such an Injustice in how we are viewed abroad and also here and how different is from reality. Never said Israel doesn't make the problem worse with bad strategies, but in the macro level the amount of how the picture is distorted is enormous and I could not just stay quiet in front of that. Think however you want anyway.

@Danioover9000 Your last paragraph is your deffense mechanism against a powerful claim that doesn't blame only Israel. If you are fair you have to add Jewsphobia to the rules at the same exact way. How do you want me to talk about origin of Ideologies while be politicly correct? Then Suggest to me another way to say that and I will change the wording, but I cannot not saying an important part of the truth just because of pc. This doesnt mean any muslim thinks that because that is not what I said, but the origin of these extreme ideologies came from that thinking.

A little harder but would not solve the problem. I'm for that anyway. Massacres of Arab against Jews happend long before any occupation during 1920s and 1930s. In Quran its written that Islam is the only legitimate religion, and other religions can live under Islam as inferiors and only according to Sharia laws. To think Israel is the root of the problem is foolishness. See the terror in europe, the terror groups of arabs do to one another too in the same brutality.

@_Archangel_ Trying to understand the reality of Israel and the conflict through mathematics of words and terms, without zooming out to see the bigger context, is precisely what the best lies are made of. See my answer to @zazen above which in I explained what I personally think. What you did is like to collect puzzle pieces that seems to connect physically but when you zoom out there is no picture created because you connected it wrong.

@Karmadhi Again, when you have 10,000s terror targets to attack, you cannot think every single time how to hit only the terrorists, even if you try your best, it is unrealistic, and given the virus clever strategies to disguise itself to healthy cells and use them as his hosts as its only possible strategy to survive. In this situation, more loose attacks will indeed happen. I am not trying to pretend the war is clean from any side because its not possible to fight clean with this kind of virus. However to equate the two sides is uttetly rediculous. The difference in values, education, thinking, intentions, motivations, goals... night and day difference. In the root this is not because what Israel did in the past but Israel made this worse you are right. Hezbollah in Lebanon for example holds the exact same ideology and intention, but it is not palestinian, it is a direct Iran's proxy formed in the help of IRGC and isn't occupied by anyone and antyhing.

@Karmadhi Sorry but there is no symmetry and no comparison at all between one side does torture and killing intentionally than other side who was never meant to initiate any war like this unless being provoked severely, and has, as I said before, to deal with a parasital virus who use healthy cells as his hosts to survive and nothing will change that fact. The details as tragic as they are cannot be seen out of the bigger context. If the world will start to talk also about the abuse, tyranni and brainwhashing Gazans children are already go through under hamas's cult leaving them no decent life or future anyway even before the war, then a deep discussion can be done. And any comparison between nazis and a war happened in 1948 is a jock and jock is an understatement.