Zetxil

Choice is based on the desires of the individual to progress into the future. And of course! That is the integration of all past/current knowing. In order to project and cast into all forms of future! But that is where free will starts to diminsh, but never completly non-existant, because the likelyhood of those projections become less and less in control the further you are away from the present! Here is maybe another example, take a skill, any skill that you find to have mastered. I enjoy using the act of a professional playing music or performing a show. And you will find that when performing an act the individual isn't directing their attention to what is happening in the present. It is a few steps ahead and they allow practiced motor/muscle memory, to perform the cascade of events to have the inteded projection come into being. Think of it like this, we, as human beings, aren't inherently diminshing the input given to us. Anything that ticks (clocks, metronome etc...) or runs on a circut can be seen this way. Continual progression to an eventual end. But humans! One of the coolest things about being human is our ability to change or disinhibit our already pre-programed movement! Oh here we go! The finger movement from Leo's video. We natuarally make these circuts from the time we are young for movement, you can see babies do this where they focus on the movements of their hands! In doing this, they are essentially moving the conscious awareness of what it feels like to have a bodily sensation into subconsious so that action can be repeated indefinitly and changed to fit their needs in the future! Maybe here is a better question to get my point across. Why do we have consciousness if free choice isn't real? Consciousness here being the ability to take potential and transform it into actuality and habituate the intended movement. There are also different and district patterns of neurological activity that can be identified when intently learning versus passively learning which is a pretty cool phenomena!

@Truth Addict To prove free will exists, you can do your own thought experiment on the habitualness of learning a task, or setting up the cascade of events that can transpire, before they transpire. Think of it this way. When driving a car at 50 kph (the exact speed is irrelevant) , where is your attention? It isn't on the road directly in front of your car, because then you have already run it over by the time those mental images and body sensations get processed by the individual. No, your attention is out in front of you a block or so down the road. Because you are scheduling this cascade of events to happen and then letting them happen. You have no will over what happens in that cascade, but setting up that cascade there is choice. There is a gradient of choice that degrades, into a form of determinism, after a certain point in awareness. This degradation of choice is rooted in time. Now to me, you don't seem to be discussing free will at all, but you are denying the notion of the individual self completely. I.e. "If I don't exist, how can anything I do exist, and that is a whole different topic because it goes into what it means to exist." Leaving only leads to the denying on ones true self, but to stay and converse you may learn and progress To deny concepts is to deny existence, and that seems very boring to me

So you find those who are practicing being fake, using effort, to be lame. While those who have mastered the ability of faking, mastery usually occurs through effort, as intelligent?

@AlexJ Great we can work off that! To me, what you're expressing shows that structure, to you, can be meaningful in both a negative and positive way! it seems simple that you have to weigh the outcomes of having proper structure compared to not having structure! Is it worth it to be scatter brained and think more laterally about things or implement structure and be able to think more vertically. Both processes of thought can be extremely useful and we all must balance those two in order to adapt to the situation! People who are really good at thinking laterally, are often comedic in nature (attached vid) whereas more vertical thinking leads to more serious forms of interaction! They are both useful in the right situation and can be detrimental in the wrong one! Don't stop overthinking "someone who thinks all the time, has nothing to think about, but thoughts themselves" Good luck on your adventure of trying to find what works best for you!

If you can't see what you could gain from a discussion then why do you respond, you are free to just leave a conversation whenever? To me it is "very, very obvious" what has been gotten and what still can be gotten! (side note: try to limit your use of the word very. It will help to expand your vocabulary into more meaningful interactions. Very is a filler word that conveys little to other individuals, especially when used twice in a row ) If something is so obvious, one should have no trouble at all getting another person to experience it. You speak as if the work hasn't been done or questions haven't been asked. Free will can and cannot be located within direct experience I can try to make you experience free will/locate it for yourself in a different thread if you would like <-- oh look another thing you can get, a more open mind! Oh? Is there not a me or us in conversation? All words are concepts, concepts have an affect on meaning within individuals, and individuals can attempt to express meaning to one another to form a variety of structures. an example of one of these structures is a society. and just as no free will is not the ultimate Truth, but rather just one step on the way to Truth, so is free will. <--why do you capitalize truth like it is a proper noun? (I just copied your mannerisms, if you didn't notice) If only you knew what you don't know

First off, all values are meaningful! Meaning is a free flowing concept that can be applied to any situation or circumstance. Ask yourself the question, What does it mean to function properly? Let us know and we may be able to help you a little get on track to proper functioning! For me, you already are functioning properly! <3 You will find that people who have a "good life" are the ones that are in the sickest places. It may be a "must have" for you, but if you spend time in hospitals or nursing homes (or places where people are truly in poor health) you'll find that some live "good" lives and some live "bad" lives. Try to find other words to describe things when you want to use good or bad in a statement. Those two words are too dichotic in nature to express any real meaning to another individual.

@Andreas Read the story of Abraham, and see for yourself why there is a real trap in staying in the "comfort zone"

@Truth Addict Oh boy, where to start with this haha! So if you could debunk everything, why don't you? Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to be spouting that there is a very simple truth, but never define/state it clearly. You just say truth exists (which it does, don't worry, you'll find it eventually). Also, you may have misinterpreted our interactions as debate! This is false. It is more of a mutual conversation where both sides can be wrong and both sides can be right and there is middle ground and commonality in between us. How would you define your level of awareness as different from mine so that there wouldn't be a common, objective, truth instead of only your subjective truth. When speaking with you, there seems to be a irrational pattern coming from you. When you say you know something, but can't explain it in a clear objective manner. I was once in your stage of disbelief where you can only interpret one true meaning, all the while excluding other! But that is why I am here, to help you take that next step in your development! To stop progress, in any direction, because you "know" the truth leads to complacency and ignorance! You must take responsibility to understand this yourself I rewatched the video just for you! In that video, he is contrary to himself where he states there is no self, but then wants you to do self observation ~8 min (what a fun paradox!) Defines self/ego as the combination of mental images and bod sensations ~14 min He then continues to give examples of emerging proponents for 25 min ~up to min 40 More examples of how the process of thought comes in and other misconceptions ~ up to min 65 concept of surrender to nature = faith 68 min ramifications of no free will are spoken about ~ min 69 (nice!) onward It is always nice to see someone work something out for themselves, which Leo has done, and an even better feeling when you can work out the problem for yourself. There is this trap of complacency and it is evident. I was once there as well! Don't worry though, you can work through it with dedicated practice! Again, you don't add anything to the conversation when you only state what others have stated before you. Your mind is too closed still, but the opening of your mind to new possibilities isn't up to you, that will come with time! There is no speculation in my answers. The "train of thought" metaphor may be too out of reach for you still. It isn't a literal train! (Choo Choo) ayyyeee you got somewhere! Good work! But keep up the progress and you may understand it all to entirety! @Shadowraix Your right on the first part, I understand what you were attempting to explain to me now! The absolute only transcends any current labels. This is why we are all here and converse with each other (to find a shared, objective, "label" to the absolute) Poor example, but I agree with your statement!

And piggybacking off of this, we find that feeling free leads to more innovation and novel ideas because everyone isn't solely focused on the constraints and wanting to have that feeling of freedom. There needs to be a feeling of freedom in society and within ourselves because if there is a feeling of constraint there can't be True expression of that individual. There may be expression, but it will seem to lack luster to others. Tyrannical oppression has clearly proven to be more of a bad thing in the history of civilization

@Truth Addict Novel thoughts do seem to come out of no where, but we all have this thing called a "train of thought" (train metaphor incoming) where one thought leads to another and on and on, these thoughts are more like the tracks and we are almost like the conductor driving this train. We don't get to decide which track to take, but the incorporation of previous tracks fortifies the current track we are on and allows for a greater possibility of tracks to proceed onto in the future! Understandable! And I noticed a trend in thinking, based of your use of language, that signified a misunderstanding of usage by others and wanted to try and help you gain a better understanding! The author never stated that they wanted to completely rid themselves of guilt, those are your words The desire isn't entirely to be rid of an emotion, but to lessen its affects on the individual so other emotions can fill the space. When a child experiences something they don't like, or find frightening, we don't tell them to bury that emotion and not feel it to its entirety. Just look at what happened to Elsa in the move "Frozen" she tried to conceal and not feel a part of her and ended up in isolation until she expressed herself completely! We take the child in our arms and teach them to confront whatever they didn't like in a manner that is acceptable and most likely to be beneficial to all involved! I want to make it clear that you aren't just reading myths about english people. Look into ancient myths translated to english. I find a better thing to have a grasp of, for the purpose of communicating/connecting with a bigger audience, is mythology and your own interpretations of the meanings of mutual stories! @Shadowraix The either-or situation isn't both true. both false. It is more than that and you know that is an oversimplification. What is that same thing? You didn't seem to address the question

Hmmm, I'm not used to the "rules" of this format of communication, forums, entirely. So is it okay if we continue this discussion in this thread, or should it be moved to a separate thread. @Shadowraix @Truth Addict What is that same fundamental thing? Be as specific and literal as possible in your response please! (as I am about to use your "balance line" as a tightrope metaphor) My stance, if you can call it that, is that free will does and doesn't exist and all iterations of such in-between also occur. The best way to budge someone's balance line is to come at them with the full force in the opposite direction with a little of their own idea, used to the extreme, mixed in! One perspective can become more than one perspective and so on and so forth! Also, when you notice there is only one perspective expressed by someone, it seems to be helpful to make them waver just enough to have them come face to face with the truth on their own accord, but to not push them off completely!

@okulele When you have more than one party involved, which in our case we do, clarity doesn't just come from within. It is evident, from a third person perspective, when one person has "reconciled" guilt and the other hasn't reconciled their own pain of whatever situation occurred. Interactions between those two people are different and can eventually come back into harmony through continued interaction; addressing the awkwardness tends to speed up the need for extra stress/energy to "go away"! Metaphor time: The elephant in the room seems to clear up faster if addressed which in turn causes more long term harmony/happiness. It seems to be that the most productive situations occur when neither person has reconciled the situation and themselves, it is easier to find mutual ground and work forward together in a manner that is beneficial to all parties!

@Truth Addict Eureka! You still haven't thought of your thoughts objectively yet. Verifications are found on either side of the conversation, that seems to be why we converse....Thinking from solely one side seems to grow complacence in development I wasn't asking the author of this thread... I already said my thoughts to them because I have lived through what was described and was connecting with the author. My question was directed at you! The flag part was sarcastic in my statement. It is a little strange that I have to explain things to you, but I can continue. And sure lets figure out where our communications aren't getting through? What part would you like me to explain. for me it is like this, I find you think this is a one sided conversation where you truly know all and I present myself to find common ground in our respective thoughts! Who knows, maybe we can find something more from both sides (of the conversation) to be expressed more truly as a whole "entity" <-- (not really a fan of that wording, what would you use?) Oh so it may be a language gap! When words are expressed in certain ways they can convey different meaning based on a certain emotion and/or a recollection of a shared common past, so I can recommend you read some ancient myths in english a vast majority of english speakers connect with myths meanings or morals in interesting ways when they are brought up on conversation Let me know "where you think our trouble stands!"<-(metaphor for when you want to convey that you have expressed your concerns on the shared confusion and now would like to know what the other side thinks, in having a conversation/sharing of thoughts!) How long have you been learning english? It can be challenging to learn another language only over text! People generally have to speak face to face to subconsciously pick up on body-ques or facial movements over periods of conversation to help them have those underlying similar qualities that are unrecognizable until directed at. This must be done in order to understand expression, in all languages, and to better understand common expressions held by native speakers of a certain language. You can also try longer form answers, instead of simpler sentences! Try to push yourself in the expression of your vocabulary! Even if it is incorrect in some way, someone will be able to piece together what you are trying to say and help you get to what you want to express! (and hopefully even help you express your ideas slightly differently in the future so it can be understood by a wider audience<- the bigger your audience, the greater the chance of someone else understanding what you are trying express grows exponentially!) Also, I am glad you find my "criticism" positive! It wasn't intended to be criticism, however, to me it was more like stating what happens in interactions!

@Serotoninluv Very eloquently put! I will be a little more blunt about it! The more you learn about something the more complex it gets. There is no end to that conundrum. A flower is only complicated when one tries to explain it to someone else! It has this part, this part, and that part. These parts can be broken down indefinitely. To be able to experience something in its entirety is more what I find myself searching for! It is combination of knowing something and knowing what you don't know about it, all the while still appreciating it for what it is! @Giulio Bevilacqua The way you feel is not crazy, it is how we all feel! Whether we chose to be aware of this feeling is another story for another day! Curiosity is what drives innovation. Don't just bury that part, but integrate it properly along with your other emotions!

If you proved it to yourself doesnt that intern mean you had control? ? Thoughts make up free will, free will is a concept composed of thoughts, and thoughts are concepts composed of words. Words are just a clumsy form of expression of one's own free will. Why would someone want to remove the experience of an emotion, negative or positive? That is a very limiting thing to do to yourself ? Surrendering happens when you put up a white flag in war and wave it around. You seem to be expressing a singular truth but not completing it to entirety. To say that control is out of the picture entirely only restricts the outcome. Please don't just recite other's ideas without first having come up with your own. Dialogue becomes boring if you simply recite and don't add your personal spice

@Truth Addict That is truely quite the claim seeing as he isn't free of guilt already, can you prove that free will is non-existant? @SoonHei you'll find as you go through this life that if you confront something there may be a large amount of short-term emotion and long-term bliss! They key is to confront it of your own accord and to not be forced into it or let it supprise you! If you read and understand the story of Abraham in the bible (first story that popped into my head attacking this concept) this idea will become an evident motif in plenty of other writings and experiences!

You are gonna have to define Human, exist, future, and difference. I find when I ask myself this open of a question, the following results: humans are inherently different from one another on an individual level, but holeistically we are all homo sapiens (human) as a species and could potentially mate with one another (I.e. mixed race children). That being said, if we were to send a colony to mars/into space they would adapt and future generations would evole into a different species over an extended period of time that a human of now and a "human" of then wouldn't be able to concieve viable offspring. Humans will always exsist as a species in the history of the universe even if whatever comes next calls themselves something different from human

You don't flame an actor that embodies another's personality because you know the truth about them. You know they are an actor! The same principle applies here in that your aggravation towards another because they seem fake, is because they don't claim to be fake or you don't know their intent. You can tell others to be authentic all you like, but thay doesn't mean they will listen! Who is to say that you don't seem fake to them and they are just reciprocating your actions back to you? Even a strong tiger fakes weakness to support and nurture instinct in their young ?

Are you defining enlightenment as the end of all suffering? Cause if that is the case then no, you can't become enlightened until you stop suffering from tinnitus. One can be enlightened with tinnitus! They aren't mutually exclusive concepts. Now, if you are looking for alleviation from your tinnitus symptoms I would reccomend seeking a trained physician in the matter. What worked for me to alleviate my symptoms was noticing which postures and head tilt positions caused louder or softer "volumes" of ringing. It still never goes a way completely, but being aware of it can help you notice it less in a slightly paradoxical sense. When bouts of ringing are really bad, I enjoy listening to music on the lowest possible volume that I can distinguish different pitches and really focus in on the shifts and dynamics on the song! You'll find helps "take your mind off" your tinnitus pitch! along with that I also reccomend finding your specific tinnitus pitch (gain an of understand how sound is interpreted by the ear, ~10hz-25khz) and slowy trying to shift your tinnitus pitch into a more inaudible range which will help alleviate your symptoms!

You speak as if you know who I am.....?

@Sunny J Gupta Quitting is the only cause of true failure. There is always something to be gained by picking yourself back up and taking another step. @Pras It is the habitualness that drives the overarching direction. In other words, once something is habit there is no more energy needed to do a task. We can call that subconscious. Contrastingly, consciousness is the innate ability we all have to conjure something up. Making something non-tangible, tangible. That is where the energy gets used to over come those "pointless" tasks because you know that they will be better for you and your "future yous" so to speak. The ability to turn something fully thought-out and break it into little steps which can become habits would be that KEY you are looking for. The lock itself would be consistency and hard work, and how hard the door would be to move would depend on ones talent.

Get a scheduler, WRITE DOWN YOUR PLAN, and stick to it! Don't waste time. If you are going to the library for 4 hours and really only studying for 30 min and the rest of your time on your phone, you aren't doing anyone any favors! Never study intensely for more than an hour at a time. Take breaks: 10-15 min stretches or walks help synthesize the info you just learned over the past hour! I find 45 min of intense studying, and I can lay that out a little better if you want, coupled with 15 min of break to get a drink/listen to some light music work the best for me. Study broadly at first, working into specifics and then back out broadly again to throughly deepen your understanding of the content you are trying to integrate into your head. GET 8 HOURS of sleep CONSISTENTLY. I cannot stress enough the importance of a goods night sleep on the consolidation and recollection ability of memories. In order to learn properly, you first have to learn the best ways to learn. Push yourself, but don't allow yourself to burn out in the long run. Find what is sustainable for you! And make sure you leave some time to do/find something you are truly passionate about, you'll find it revitalizes your energy If you ever start running on Empty!

Grades matter. It is easier to play a game where you know and understand the fundamental rules first before playing the game than to be thrown to the wolves and figure out in the scrap. The best way to show you understand the general rules to the overarching game(s) is to show dedication to a grade system while still showing discontent with the grade system, it can always be better. I don't know what your aspirations are other than to escape the "wage slavery," which I can only assume, if one is to put a number on it, is the 70K which is the most drastic mark put forth by psychologists on the general trend of overarching happiness correlated to wage. Your thinking is correct that grades are, unless heading into academia, throughly irrelevant after the first 5 years out of the educational sector, but if you get those good grades and put in the effort to learn, those first 5 years are going to be a hell of a lot easier on you. You won't have to run around chasing coattails cause you will already be ahead. You see, the work you put in prefacing a situation will only help you be more informed about the outcome. All education has value, and when it is offered to you freely (assuming public high school), just accept it and try your best to succeed at your individual goal(s). 3 months is virtually nothing to a lifetime! Stick it out and find your limit. It may be easier to give up one thing and to pursue another, but the most satisfaction come when you complete something entirely! No one strives for almost!