integral

Its as if growth is not always possible for the other people in our lives. Causing concessions we have to work around.

@LordFall I'll believe it when you get those results. Alot of woman in that dynamic will be jelouse and they cant be "educated" out of feeling it as that book implies. Im sure it will help. The core problem in this conversation is everything has to be perfect, and you're debating Perfection as the only standard, and everything else is failure, mediocre, "wrong" There is some truth to it, because most people in relationships dont apply themselves as they were not thought there is a higher level to relationships, so they get mediocre results. At the same time, after doing all that, compromise is still necessary. <- the actual point im trying to make.

@LordFall The overall vision of self-development is correct. We're not debating on that. Every time I point to a real-world constraint, you flip it as "develop 90% more." there's no outcome I could say that your frame would count as an actual limit rather than a personal failure to develop hard enough. A frame that turns every constraint into "you didn't level up enough" can't be wrong If your frame can never be wrong, then you're not describing reality, it's good for motivation, but we're just talking about reality right now. Useful for life coaching, useless for understanding life. Fully develop yourself, Max everything out. After all of it, life still involves compromise. Not because your under-developed but because that's what it means to operate in a real world

I'm pointing to what results look like in the real world not in an ideal bubble. - Ideal bubble: Romantic relationships, businesses family relationships, social relationships, greater impact on the world - The real world: you develop a severe chronic health problem that prevents you from doing any of that. And now you have to Define a model of the real world involving self-development. The results a person is getting does not mean they don't understand self-development, this is the wrong epistemology. What your pointy to is High orange values fully actualized in the world, that's not self development, that's idealism.

@LordFall are you implying that the reason I'm pointing to chess is because I think I'm now skilled in everything in life? Why would I make that conflation? This is what we have to do here. give me the benefit of the doubt and assume I've been doing self development my entire life like you have. So that we can have a proper conversation. Reaching 0.01% at everything in life is a stage orange value. Anyone can maximize any Dimension once they unlock basic self development in high Orange. I view this as so natural and obvious it doesn't even have to be said. Being able to master skills does not define you and your self-esteem and your entire Vision in life. I view developing skills as Rudimentary, you have a goal you pursue it and you master it.

The reason I said that was because for a child to become a chess master takes a massive amount of work in self development. I'm pointing to years of sustained continuous focus and effort in mastering one's own minds and application. Children are not doing this. I'm talking about unlocking self development as a concept, understanding how to apply that to a larger domain of your life Vast majority of people are not doing basic self development. The intoxicating effects of power. Someone with power and Status gave you a hot girl to sit on your lap and have sex with. Obviously that's exciting, fun and intoxicating. So you're addicted to this lifestyle and now your whole life purpose and vision is about it? If you want to have a threesome that's perfectly fun and great but now you want to have two pregnant women? The real world requires actual responsibility and effort. You'll have to actually commit to these people and if they don't turn out to be the 10 out of 10 relationships that you want them to be there's no going back. The real world of impregnating two hot girls in a polyamorous relationship is going to be very difficult. People are unstable, having relationships is hard enough as it is and you're making it out to be a fairy tale of power and ecstasy.

That's a great Point let me clarify. Her pussy is mostly sealed away and not affecting the air 99.9% of the time. When it does become a factor he's already intoxicated by his own sexual hormones which mostly masks any symptoms he might experience from it.

Epistemology: All Points have infinite scientific papers Direct experimentation with five to six observable measurements like Sleep Quality, Sexual Energy ... While maintaining a structured repeated routine, ( going to bed at the same time , eating the same exact meal , exercising at the same time). All variables accounted for. Then the experiment is run over and over and over again. Then a process of falsifying it by seeing if there's a way to break the hypothesis. Experiments are created to break the hypothesis and when everything fails. It's considered true. Both breaking hypothesis and imagining that hypothesis both consume a lot of time and energy. Work is being done just exploring the space in a continuous self-development loop. Connecting all the dots into one coherent model Experimenting on others and monitoring/observing their experience

INTJ No it's not straightforward, it's loaded with a worldview and values. Coping with what? There was never a vision for a perfect relationship because they don't exist, and I have other things I find far more important to focus on It's easy to find people you're compatible with and then after that it's just a relationship. And you have to live a life. And living that life won't be some Disney story miracle. Living a life is hard. I was a chess master by the age of 12. I figured out self-development in elementary school. Okay so you have an extremely specific vision and now you're going to do everything you can to actualize it. Why did you invent this vision?

This is the vision of self development that happens when someone unlocks self development for the first time, they then fully realize just how little everyone else is self-directing their own development. And then they realize all the issues in the world and that if people were pursuing self-development they wouldn't make all of these mistakes and of course the incentive is to help push people to grow up. What I'm talking about is after exhausting this Non-Stop at the end of all of this self-development work, the measurement for what someone gets out of life is not getting "what they deserve". So statements like "Out of 10 what quality of partner do you think you deserve? If you answer anything other than 10 you're low self-esteem or lazy in my books." This makes perfect sense to a beginner with low self-esteem, a way to manufacture a feeling. The function of "you deserve a 10" is to install entitlement as motivation, to convince yourself you're owed the best, and you'll have the confidence/drive to pursue it, fail to feel owed it, and you'll "settle." So "deserve" here is a psychological technique. And then it quickly becomes a victim mindset and an entitlement mindset. "I dont deserve this" is a victim mindset. Deserving things is disguised as standards. It's very close to having high standards but it's actually a game of victim hood. The right way is to Simply have standards for yourself and a vision for the type of life you want to have. -> The right framing is to ask what is my vision of the type of life I want and is this aligned with it? What kind of Lamborghini do you think you deserve? I feel No Lack whatsoever for Lamborghinis. This is literally the experience of Lamborghini abundance. There's no 'deserve' in how I see it because there's no one there to be owed anything. There's just: what's the situation, what's my vision, and what's the strategic move to bring them closer. Developed people are not running a self-esteem calculation about what they're owed. If your dick gets chopped off are you going to feel like you deserve a dick? It was never about deserving dicks, Maturity involves accepting reality and being strategic about how you apply your vision to the real world.

I agree and also it's still very messy the real world, it's true there's a mismatch and also there's always going to be a mismatch. Is the mismatch that he's going to get with other woman going to be a bit better than this one, Maybe. He can't be satisfied where he's at so he has to go and explore the world, that's 100% correct. What we're talking about is that he's going to go find some woman out there that's better than the one he has, That's the only thing in question here. I agree with a lot of points you made about compatibility, and disagree with that he's not compatible with the woman he's dating right now. And if he's on the verge of loneliness in the honeymoon phase of an 8 month relationship clearly there's more to the problem than him having to go explore the Abundant sexual fruits of our world. The number one thing he's going to find out there dating other people is himself --- Theres always a subtle hint in your writing that there's this abundant world out there and of course you can't be satisfied in a relationship you have to taste the fruits of everything. A lot of intps are like this my INTP friend tried to have me have sex with his girlfriend because he was so desperate for threesome, and his girlfriend was rejecting it. So I asked him why he wants this so badly? why is this stuff so important to him that he would allow other men to have sex with his girlfriend? And from his perspective he just wants to explore and experience everything and he doesn't want to be limited. Well from my perspective I don't want someone else's dick in my girlfriend. But to each their own right? I personally couldn't care less about experiencing another man inside my girlfriend but he is so obsessed with experiencing every aspect of life that he wants this. He also told me he wants to experience killing someone at least once. lmao so that he could get the full experience of life, to get the full experience you always have to experience everything at least once. Well I don't agree, that's just his values and what he wants out of life

When living with someone people go through every state and mood. So the whole spectrum of who they are as a person is revealed. Their worst possible selves and their best possible selves are all going to be something that the partner has to experience every day. The closer that both partners Lifestyles align with each other the less friction there's going to be when all these different moods and States collide. Having high standards to select a good partner is super important and 99% of the point of doing that is to figure out if you can live together with them.

It's hard to know if you're compatible with someone if you don't live with them

I read in the previous comment that people were interpreting what we were saying as that he should stay in the relationship. When what we're talking about is he doesn't have any gratitude or appreciation or understanding what life is about. and @LordFall will frame gratitude as weakness, settling, scarcity mindset, laziness and so on. and that's only true when they didn't do any self development work, when they didn't pursue all of that stuff and now they're actually coping. This is his first relationship and he found something to be unhappy about, And that's fine that's how we are all built and now he has to go and date 600 more women to find that they're all basically the same. Everyone you're going to date is going to have strengths and weaknesses. @LordFall the MBTI point was good, compatibility is important, but what matters more above mbti is what is their mature level, how have applied themselves in self development, do they have healthy physiology and don't have neurological conditions.

Why is that such a crazy thing to say?

From your perspective what i said is toxic abuse? and what i said is he needs life experience to know what hes looking for.

Dude your acting like hes in a toxic abussive relationship and im telling him to accept it.

For anyone with life experience.

"met an incredibly loving, loyal, beautiful woman. We are highly compatible in lifestyle: both introverted, home-oriented, physically attracted to each other, and comfortable living together. She takes care of the home, I provide financially, and the relationship is peaceful and easy." this is the ideal relationship. I would of accepted "peaceful" as the only requirement.

I didn't say he had to settle. I said if he has a problem he needs more life experience and that means he has to leave the relationship and get that experience But don't expect some rainbow unicorn woman at the other side

@Elliott Realistically what you could hope for is a woman who's going to hug you when you come home from work and tell you that she loves you.

MIMINUM? He said the only problem with his wife is that she's intellectually not his equal. That means she qualifies at every level except for one. Anyways the problem has nothing to do with the girl it has to do with him not having experience, and not knowing what life is about and prioritizing small details that and he thinks fixing these small details are going to bring him happiness

You're at the beginning of the journey not the end. That perfect woman doesn't exist, you're going to find someone marginally of better compatibility. Don't confuse one realization for understanding the whole journey here. Who ever you date will have strengths and weaknesses.

Let's assume someone does not have a scarcity mindset, they do have options and yet they're in a great relationship with a great woman who has one imperfection. Now your whole post looks like someone has to chase perfection or else there settling, so the framing is everything is settling and that's weakness and therefore it's wrong. Do you "deserve a Lamborghini?" the answer: The question is a shallow value projection. Needing Perfection is the pathology. Because these are children's games. If you're in a great relationship and still not happy it's because you have to grow up. And there's nothing wrong with needing to grow up and if that growing up means you have to leave the relationship to experience life then that's what you got to do.

Watch on youtube so it loops. Loop: https://youtube.com/shorts/ogPVcIeE8a0?si=UHXN0A2q9ir5Y80X