Derek White

Right. Leo should be more mindful of how others perceive him, especially if he wants to help and reach out to more and more people. The "creepiness" factor is definitely a problem, and saying "I'm better than Jesus, Buddha..." doesn't help.

The whole point of Naruto was hard-work but then we’re told he’s a reincarnation of the son of God destined to be great. Rock Lee and Might Guy were more Naruto than Naruto. Might Guy Before releasing the 8 gates: (To Kakashi) "The springtime of youth has yet to fade away! Don't lose hope! We may not always be able to accomplish all the things we wish for… but if we only do the things we want to do, we'll never start… just like my challenges to you. This is by no means just a show of bravery or courage. The green days of Konoha are over. The time has come to become the red beast." After releasing the 8 gates [red beast]: Madara: “Red is colour of falling leaves.” Might Guy: “…That may be true… but they don't just rot and die!! They will become nourishment for the new, fresh leaves! The time when a new spring comes and the fresh leaves bud… is the peak of youth!! It's the time to burn, deep crimson!!!”

Why do you categorize feelings as good and bad? I’ve seen you do it in other threads too. Feelings are feeling, good and bad are labels.

Indians and cowboys ? Vox has good videos on India ??

Blue reacting to green ?.

@Martin123 People here sometimes get very defensive. The best thing to do is to keep your calm and if you feel they're being stubborn then just leave the thread. I've had people call me names for literally no reason. I've had people misread my post and respond with a knee-jerk, long post which seemed like a rant. It changed my behavior, in the sense that I started taking the forum less seriously and being less thoughtful in my posts. It was a mistake on my part, I tried to be like the people who disrespected me. I skimmed through the threads you were mentioned and it does seem like there was some light trolling but in all honesty you were also not being very friendly in your manner. I don't think Leo is being rude but I do think he should explain why someone is wrong or at least provide a way for them to realize where they went wrong. I find the best way to communicate is to be direct. Stop with the sarcastic comments and inflammatory words. Post like you're sending a semi-formal email to someone.

I think that if both parties were drunk then the initiator would be at fault, although I’m not sure. I’ve never had alcohol and have no desire to but it’s a common recreational activity in universities. Sex and alcohol are best avoided, specially in todays day and age. The thing is my grade 10 social studies teacher did a mock trial about a rape in class. It involved drunk sex and the accused was found innocent. And it did seem that the accused was genuinely clueless. But that f’er didn’t tell us that the case was from the early 90’s and since then the laws had drastically changed. He confused us so much, we were told something else in previous years and other classes, but we believed him because he was our teacher and it was social studies after all and the accused was found innocent. It’s only when my grade 11 law teacher brought up consent that I cleared my doubts. Unfortunately many boys that were his students probably have a wrong idea of drunk consent now.

Most Hindus don't perform Sati and it's very rare, it's not a problem in modern India, they are clearly not reading it the way you have described. The message is a lot more abstract, you're not suppose to take them literally. Rama was a king, that doesn't mean Hindus support a monarchy just because it was in their scripture. The message is not to put your wife on a test to prove her loyalty. And Ravana was a serial rapist? What? He didn't rape SIta because he was a good person and not because he was cursed. Again, not the version I'm familiar with. Furthermore, Rama, a king, put his wife on a test because she was pregnant and it's very important for the people of a kingdom to know whether the child, their potential heir, is from their king or conceived from someone else. He did what he did because of his duty to his people. The story was written before the 5th century BC so it has some traditions which are outdated. I think Sadhguru answers your questions in these videos: This is the first time I'm hearing of Ananga Ranga, it's not a religious text. A dating manual? India doesn't have a dating culture, we have arranged marriages. Anyway, a quick Wikipedia search tells it was written in 15th or 16th century in honor of Lad Khan, son of Ahmed Khan Lodi, so it is during the Muslim rule of India written for the Muslim rulers' pleasure. It says more about Islam than Hinduism. YOU are the one who brought religion into this and said Hinduism is worst than Islam. There is enough there in the culture to guarantee human rights. India doesn't need to look at, say the US which legalized interracial marriages just 50 so years a ago, for moral guidance. The examples of sexism you mentioned are not even give that much emphasis and don't clearly say "men are superior to women". There are many good examples and symbolism of women as equals in the culture which are very very overt, but you clearly ignored those. That is one thing India is good at, acceptance, tolerance, and spirituality. Indian culture is bad at organizing society, defending itself, and science but we are catching on. Let's stop discussing religion and pointing fingers and focus on the real issue.

@Lento Aye yo buddy! May I recommend a YouTube channel? She is a doctor who talks and gives advice about narcissism, check her out. https://www.youtube.com/user/DoctorRamanDurvasula

Yes, that's what I was saying but people called it toxic nationalism. Also keep in mind that currently India is under an extreme religious right wing government which I consider to be similar to Nazis (explains people's fear of nationalism). The situation is very dangerous for Muslims and minorities and this government as little regard for women. I think Indians are doing relatively good (both at home and abroad) considering their history, geography, and neighbors. They could and have to do a lot better. India is not even 100 years old as a country. Give India at least 200 years to compensate for the 200 years of British rule and 1000 some years of Muslim rule and invasions. I do advocate for women's rights. When it comes to progressive positions it depends which ones. I like Bernie but there are the extremes ones which I don't agree with. For example, black separatism was a movement in the 70s which might be considered progressive at the time but I would not have advocated for it. I don't support progressive who make racist jokes about whites which even I feel uncomfortable with. I think we need to respect ideas we disagree with and I feel bad when progressives don't respect conservative ideas. They don't realize that if they grew up religious in rural country side, or saw immigrants take their jobs, they would have different views. I don't agree with how feminists and progressive go about spreading their message. I think they need to do some introspection because their mistakes are why someone like Trump gets elected. Many of them put ordinary people in a box called stupid, which is not the best way to get people on your side. Use love not hate. The Joe Rogan episode with Darl Davis, the author of "Klan-destine Relationships: A Black Man's Odyssey in the Ku Klux Klan", shows that to change people you need to talk them properly. I know this thread is about sexism but the same dynamics apply to racism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGTQ0Wj6yIg (Oh the Sadhguru video was a bit of a joke, he titled it "Stop Talking About Women's Rights" and released it on Women's day. it seems he is attracting a specific audience.)

Right, I was about to point this out. A lot of misogyny in India is a result of left over Muslim and British Victorian prudishness. There are instances where Hindu scriptures have been used to justify oppression in economically backward regions, I’m not denying that. It’s hard to use Hindu scriptures to justify misogyny. Firstly, no one in their right mind would take them literally and fundamentally. Then there are goddesses everywhere, there is Kali dancing naked on Shiva’s body while she holds heads of men, Kamasutra, one half of Shiva is female and so on. And even if earlier Hindu’s had misogynistic practices, today’s Hindu’s don’t have to practice them. Hinduism is read a lot more abstractly, it is known as “sanatana dharma” which means “eternal law”, so stuff like sati and even casteism are not considered to be the core of Hinduism and can be changed according to my understanding. It’s hard to even call Hinduism a religion, it’s more like a culture or as some like to call it “a way of life” It’s hard to distinguish Indian culture from Hinduism, sometimes one can’t tell if a certain practice comes from a local legend, culture, or scripture. Many Muslims and Sikhs have a caste in India even though Islam and Sikhism don’t have casteism. My knowledge of India comes for growing up there and going to school there. I haven’t read Ramayana but I know the story. Never have I seen it used as a tool for sexism or as justification for sati. Most of sexism I have seen comes from prudishness, bad Bollywood movies, and outdated traditional practices that are more cultural than religious. A lot of it comes from the girl’s family having to pay dowry, it’s probably the number one reason.

... and the country was looted, women were raped, people were enslaved, cultural genocide, erosion of social fabric, govt. induced famines, massacres etc. God, Indians must miss the good old days under the Brits. People who fought the Brits must be so stupid. Oh yes! The Ramayana! Having a woman as a main character and a husband who loves her so much that he risks his life to get her is soo misogynistic! It should learn from the bible and quran about how to treat women. Indians should just accept western values because all the good comes from their only.

Look what Sadhguru released on International Women’s day.

Right. I was reading The Legend Of King Arthur, which lays the ground for western chivalry, and in it some of the round table knights have “forced” themselves upon women and it’s treated as normal. Cultures change, values change. All I’m saying is stop singling out Hinduism. And to say that Hinduism is more sexist than Islam is absurd imo. Even within India muslim women are far more oppressed than Hindu women. Western evolution of values are build upon the degradation of other cultures. All you have to do is look at the history of “western values” and how they were practiced on Indians and Africans.

@Annoynymous How the fuck am I being nationalistic? Sattee is not considered part of Hinduism by many Hindus. This stuff isn’t unique to Hinduism. It’s far less in Hinduism imo.

In some places, I heard that even if they made an unintended eye contact with a female they would get beat up right there. It’s very conservative in that regard. There’s more rape in purple and red parts of India where the upper caste well to do oppress the lowly and physically weak. Not all parts of India are equal. These problems are not unique to India, Rape, open defecation, etc. happens in third world countries. India’s just talking about them more openly, which is good. I have never hear of anyone performing suttee or heard of rape as a punishment. Hinduism is not a sexist religion. They literally worship goddesses and the ancient culture is very open about sexuality. Have you read Ramayana and the ancient scriptures like Kamasutra? If Hinduism is so bad then why is India, which is a majority Hindu country, secular and treats women as equals at least on paper? Look at the treatment of women in Bangladesh and Pakistan or any muslim country. Obviously hundreds of years of Muslim and European rule has left a mark. What other country do you see that has been colonized and has kept it’s unity, culture, and is doing good? Cut India some slack. It need to do better but it’s doing fine considering it’s history. India doesn’t need moral lessons from westerners.

There was a thread about this. Try using the search. Ratmen from the warhammer franchise are interesting... You asked for historical figures so maybe Genghis Khan. He did lead his tribes to glory.?‍♂️

Hulk

Great, I agree ??? But OP was mixing spirituality with values so that’s why I was saying it. I can get behind more humane ways of killing, sustainability and boycotting some animals all together. I think a better way of promoting veganism is to introduce better vegetarian food and to reduce the population. It’s sort of like how raising people’s economic status is a better strategy than convincing people of not having babies for population control. Also, this is such a first world problem. Third world is not thinking about better treatment of animals except in the context of religion and sustainability. I think we still have a long wag to go before we can seriously push veganism. You will likely never convince a Pakistani, whose diet contains lots of meat, to give it up because of compassion. I just don’t feel right pushing too heavily for animal rights when humans are treated so poorly.

I found a blog post of Leo explaining how enlightenment is different from being a good person. I’m posting this because I agree with him and he explains it better than me. It might help some of you to leave your ideology behind. Veganism is a question in the relative domain of life. https://www.actualized.org/insights/my-critique-of-zizeks-critique-of-buddhism Someone said earlier that other’s suffering is also your suffering. It’s not about ending suffering but “suffering more mindfully” as Leo said (not believing him but agreeing with him because it makes sense to me). Just like Jesus demonstrated on the cross.

@Serotoninluv What if I’m a psychopath incaple of empathy??? Jk, I’ll try to feel empathy lol. But what about this problem: I intuitively feel this is a dumb question coming from the hyper rational mind. But still ?

@TrynaBeTurquoise They might be pulling a prank on us, faking it lol. No but, it’s not obvious whether empathy comes from projection or intuition. At least not to me. Maybe I need to do the work. If these things were obvious people worldwide wouldn’t be slaughtering animals. Things we consider obvious were not obvious just 20 years ago, like gay rights and consent laws, etc. @Serotoninluv How do you understand people then, if not by putting yourself in their shoes? Intuition? I guess I need to sharpen my intuition. But then I don’t know if I’m being intuitive or acting on implicit thoughts.? It’s like... what if what I call blue you see it as red (but call it blue) and what you call red I see as blue (but call it red). How would I know what you actually see beyond the label? Idk ?

@Serotoninluv The post-rational phenomenon that you wrote I have never experienced. I have never, say, turned my imaginations into physical reality. I think empathy is projecting how one would react in a given situation onto another. For example, I could be imagining how full of suffering the life of a yogi must be as they have to live in harsh conditions, work hard, meditate, etc. But the yogi may not necessarily be suffering, I could be completely wrong. I am projecting. We don’t know the experience of another. It’s imaginary, a guess. Maybe if I stare at a stone long enough without labelling it, I would “feel” the “energetic connection” but that would be different than projecting human qualities on it. Although, I’m not too good at this touchy feely woo woo stuff. @TrynaBeTurquoise I’m not doing that. I was pointing out that my questions are not frivolous and that Leo has “debunked” morality before. It’s actually the moralists who are justifying their actions while operating under a belief system. How exactly do you know someone is suffering? It’s not always obvious or clear.