VeganAwake

Hey then what was all that "ignorance is bliss" crap?

What if that which believes it's in a physical body and requires having an ego, is the ego?

Exactly, there isn't an owner and that so-called knowledgeable "self" which believes it's part of a process unfolding, is a thought based illusion. It doesn't actually know anything because its not actually real. It is simply creating a circular logic "self" affirming dream story about the apparent functioning of reality, and then spins in circles like a hamster on its wheel ♻️ until the physical body dies......end of story! Throughout it's entire spiritually conditioned exploration of reality, it's been nothing but concept after concept placed overtop of reality until one concept seemed to be convincing enough to stick with and turn into a permanent belief system. This belief system actually has nothing important to do with reality. It's a tiny part of reality like a grain of sand, but it's not all of reality or anything silly like that! It's really just a bundle of thoughts, so a grain of sand is actually more real. This belief could be plucked entirely out of existence, and reality would continue to function as normal.

It's worse! Nothing realizes nothing existed. So it's not even a realization, it's nothing appearing as a realization that nobody has. 🤯 "There's only what seems to be happening" - Jim Newman

Your theory would already include being both right and wrong correct? What's the point 🤷‍♂️

We're just not talking about the same thing, and that's ok! There wasn't a good reason to butt in on your topic! All is well!

Yeah, I wouldn't describe it as being genetically encoded in the brain really, it's more like the entirety of the organism, it's predisposition like you mentioned...... just like a bear, deer, cat or fish. But for some reason in the human mind/brain, this identity gets taken to a whole different extreme. It builds layers on top of layers, concepts on top of concepts, bundles & bundles of self referential thoughts, preferences and memories, beliefs on top of beliefs. It's like the mind becomes an entity in- of-itself and then appears as the forefront of the entire operating system of the human. The more identity food (conditioning) it's given, the bigger and more complex this identity seems to become. And with all these needy preferences and beliefs, comes a lot of psychological suffering.....like a constant state of feeling alone, separate and overwhelmed. This entire operating system of identification is what's referred to as the "ME" or "Ego" it's very heavy and feels dense. Sometimes, although very rare, this entire identification operating system can die/collapse and simultaneously be recognized as having never been real in the first place. When this seems to occur, it's like a ton of bricks dropped off the mind and shoulders of the body/mind organism. It's incredible just how much energy goes into this fictional self construct. One of the big symptoms of this phenomenon is that seeking ends. But nobody comes out enlightened or liberated on the other side. That whole heavy identity is completely shattered, never to return. Not because something really got shattered, because it's clearly recognized as having never been. It also becomes very clear and obvious how this big self illusion becomes formed over a period of time. Basically that entire past process of the self identity being created is clearly and totally seen through. AND THIS IS WHAT REAL ENLIGHTENMENT, SAMADHI, AWAKENING, LIBERATION, NIRVANA, NO SELF, NONDUALITY, ACTUALLY IS. It has nothing at all to do with believing "I am god" or "I am that" or "I am all of reality" ...........those would just be more spirituality conditioned concepts stemming from an illusory identification.........meaning enlightenment definitely hasn't occurred for the body proclaiming such stories. It's unknowing, just like Ralston describes

What you describe as "created identity" is just the bodily senses coupled with a conditioned spiritual imagination. It's an illusion! There are absolutely limits, a shit ton of them actually.........you can't breathe underwater, you can't fly, you can't time travel, you can't create something out of nothing, you can't survive without food and water, you can't outrun a cheetah, you can't lift 1000 lbs, you can't predict the future, you can't guess how many fingers I'm holding up. Nobody is all of reality, (there isn't a you, that is that) .........and even if there was, it wouldn't matter or change anything because you don't get to reap any of those benefits that a god-like entity would experience. Brainwashing yourself into delusion, is not liberation or enlightenment........it's just delusion!!! So in that sense, nothing you are attempting to convince anyone of, matters in any way whatsoever, it's a completely fictional, meaningless, useless communication. It sounds cool but ultimately lacks in any kind of matterable sense 🤔

This randomness is scary and feels overwhelming/chaotic/disorganized So humans started creating endless stories about reality as a way to manage and cope. Endless stories created out of fear = Matrix

@Hojo Yes, it seems like thinking creates a storyline within or about reality. Almost like reality has to be given a story or its just random chaos. These stories are sometimes called the Matrix

Yes, in 2022

Mind or nothing Potatoes or pototoes

The body logs in but it's empty. Emptiness seems to argue with emptiness.

🤙well you're supposed to look 😂 Love u 2 brother

Who believes this?

For who? Who is having a hard time swallowing?

That which claims to be this identity is still the conditioned consumer or self illusion. It's just spiritual ego hanging on by a thread, but cutting this particular thread feels like certain death. But it doesn't matter because it's already not there. It's a trip 🤯

Accept anxious thoughts, don't push them away, but don't overly entertain/identity with them either. Recognize their usefulness, and also notice when they become overwhelming or ridiculous. Also getting enough rest, eating healthy and exercising is under-rated Imo

No escaping conceptual reality using the same conceptual framework that created it. The prison and prisoner are identical. The grass isn't greener on the other side, there never was another side. Removing a thorn with a thorn. Searching for the glasses on your head. Using the wrong map to explore the territory. Can't polish a turd.

🤦‍♂️

It also felt unsettling, like free floating or free falling, or being stuck between 2 realities for a while. But it became very clear, very fast, that there just never was a "me" from the start. There never was a VeganAwake character attached to all these conditioned concepts/beliefs......there seemed too be.....it was certainly assumed to be......but it wasn't really there. It was an attachment to self referential thinking or identification as the thinker. So it never was a certain way for "me" because "me" was an illusion.

Totally, That's what I refer to as conditioning. Jim's not trying to put forth additional concepts to believe in........he is pointing out that anarchy is the best word to describe the apparent reality when all these beliefs/concepts are recognized as BS. Liberation isn't a new concept or belief or paradigm for someone to live by. It's the end of the someone that seemed to identify and believe in those concepts altogether. Even the concept that there must be an ultimate creator/controller (god) of everything collapses. And that realization can be very unsettling.........Jim often talks about how terrifying it was initially.

Nonduality isn't saying that there isn't apparent separation between physical objects like, humans, trees, and rocks. It's referring to the internal self illusions which seem to suffer psychologically. That which seems to suffer when it's called an ass hole or that which seems to suffer when it believes it's not good enough. There are not 2 of these, there's not even 1

I had never heard of Jim until after seeing through the self illusion. Interestingly it was one or two of Leo's self inquiry/introspection videos and then a couple lines from an Adyashanti video that seemed very meaningful at the time! But these catalysts have to be taken with a grain of salt because there was already an openness and a feeling like there was something right under my nose that was always there, but being overlooked. Like an examination outside of a personal perspective. An empty and innocent introspection. "When the student is ready the teacher appears" - multiple philosophical traditions