VeganAwake

We are just like the grass growing and the salmon spawning, just like a wildfire or disease spreading. It's not crucial or important. It just happens. It doesn't matter if it continues or stops. It doesn't matter if reality is understood or not, or if you keep trying The fame and fortune won't matter or eating healthy and exercising. The meditation, yoga and spiritual practices neither. Nothing will save us, not knowing, not enlightenment, not not knowing It's totally hopeless, but in this understanding there is also a sense of relief, a relaxation glimpse, a sense of unconditional freedom maybe. An invitation to inevitable hopeless freedom

There just isn't a you period. That which feels like a separate person within the body or as the body, isn't actually there, it just seems so. The truth will set you free because there wasn't a you from the start 😉

👌

Something that's been recognized here is that, identification itself has a relentless need for things to "matter". Whether it's an identification as a human, or all of reality, makes no difference at all. When there is the experience of "I am that", with it comes an automatic need for things to have meaning, purpose and value. It can't fathom its existence or reality as meaningless or without purpose...........it's like cryptonite for identification. This illusory identification can have an expansion effect if it's reality becomes threatened enough. It's like an exadurated survival mechanism which is often referred to as spiritual ego or super ego! (What happened there) And on the opposite side of the spectrum, this illusory identification can also seem to collapse completely or be recognized to have never been, although it is very very rare and often referred to as enlightenment or liberation! (What happened here) So because of this phenomenon, the illusory identification there, will never grasp what's being communicated here. It's completely hopeless in that sense. But here there is a solid understanding of what is being experienced there, because of the memory of what that illusory identification experience was like. Basically "you" are mistakenly identified as everything and can't explain it clearly because "you" aren't everything and there are limitations, you can't risk sounding to ridiculous or everyone would just ignore and label you as crazy, and that would feel bad for that illusion of self identification.

I think one of the main difference in our opinions is the belief that the so-called driving forces of reality are intelligent and meaningful. Things occur with purpose and they are valuable to reality itself. I don't see things that way. I think reality just appears intelligent because it has had infinite time on its side. I think conditioned humans place the concepts of meaning, purpose and value overtop of reality and then operate from that conditioned perspective. I don't think reality cares at all about survival. It's a runaway train without a conductor or destination. We completely disagree on what enlightenment is and or entails, and that is just fine! It's been interesting to hear your perspective on things. That's one of the great benefits of this forum 🤙

Things can definitely seem to matter! Does the inner drive of a serial killer matter? Is it actually important weather or not the egg gets fertilized? Was it crucial that the Japanese were unsuccessful at attempting to conquer the US during WW2? Is a robot that's programed to avoid destruction, important to keep intact? Does it matter if someone is successful at committing suicide or the so-called inner drive of reality is hurdling an asteroid the size of texas, at planet earth?

@Spiritual Warrior I apologize for getting off topic on your thread 🙏 I wanted to mention that meditation is a great way to slow or halt the habitual overthinking during experience. Best bang for your buck in every way. You may have already known this 🙂

Must be convenient to have amnesia about your attitude and insults. I was just matching your energy to keep things interesting. I'm not saying I know, I'm saying you don't. And not just to be a jerk, but because I recognize the impossibility of that claim. I'm an honest nobody 🤷‍♂️

Feelings of envy could arise depending on the situation. They don't last long because there is no one left here identifying with or perpetuating them. Initial feelings even strong one's are typically not a problem and a normal reaction. They can be very habitual and arise out of nowhere even. It can take a long time for those reactionary feelings to loosen up. But sometimes they can subside quickly. It becomes problematic when these feelings actually start affecting someones daily life. It shows a disconnect and lack of understanding. It reveals an underlying issue basically. Does envy seem to be an issue for you?

I'm really just saying it's impossible to understand or accurately describe reality using man-made logic and or models of understanding. Reality is prior to it all! An infinite reality could never be put into any kind of comprehensible format or theory that someone could even possibly begin to fathom or describe. Things happened certain ways prior to any possibly of a witness. Therefore what happened no longer exists and it would be utterly ridiculous to even attempt to theorize. So in that sense reality is truly and infinitely unknowable. Closest would always end up being a theory or educated guess.

It's every feeling! The freedom is every feeling ✨️

Saying mathematics is the language of reality doesn't make it so, sorry. Your so-called concepts don't equate to anything. Mathematics isn't important in anyway whatsoever. I can grow endless potatoes when the weather is good. I don't need to count them over and over again using silly formulas to make it sound complex. The very idea of someone being enlightened makes absolutely no sense and illuminates your understanding of the topic. Enlightenment is when the individual that believes in "devil, bad, evil" all concepts learned by conditioned society, is recognized to be a self illusion. This Breakingthewall character that believes in evil, devil, and good and bad.........is a self illusion, a puppet of conditioned society. It's not real.......get it!..........the body is there.......but not Breakingthewall character. The devil and evil isn't even real bud, neither is god............those were just silly stories created by afraid humans a long time ago! Your entire paradigm is about to be pulled out from under you. And that will certainly feel scary like death because you are so attached to what you think you know and all the bs conclusions you believe you've discovered over the years. This enlightenment stuff is way out of your league. It throws out the baby with the bathwater. You are still attached to knowing and believing you can control and know reality through conditioned human intelligence........it cant be known!

Reality isn't logical though and it's certainly not mathematics. Logic and mathematics are created by humans and labeled/placed onto reality by humans. But that doesn't actually make reality those things. It's also not transending. That sounds like some egoic delusion. It's dropping or unknowing and when that happens nothing fills its place. It's emptiness through and through but that emptiness is also the completness or fullness longed for. If something fills in that knowing meaning/purpose concept, be sure it's the spiritual ego/self illusion hard at work to feel superior. Also proof is in the pudding. What exactly is known? Seriously what? Saying it can be known over and over again using big words, isn't very convincing. But that's just the problem with this so-called higher consciousness framework.......it's literally all wild imagination. That's exactly why the conclusions sound like a constant word salad going in circles over and over. What is the motivation? To be able to share confusing stories about reality that have no real use except for an imagined one. Sounds like a fruitless endeavor

I totally get what you mean. The communication isn't saying "nothing important is happening" so you should sit on a rock depressed and druel on yourself. It's also not saying "nothing ultimately matters" so you should give up on life and crawl in a hole and die" It's pointing to the radical freedom of unconditional reality. Meaninglessness isn't prison walls. Purposeslessness does not = its a boring mundane reality with nothing to strive for. Valuelessness does not mean throw your money away and find a cave to meditate in, until you die. Hopelessness does not mean crawl underneath your blankets and avoid reality. This communication is not a teaching or a practical guide on how to live. & yes, I see how it could appear that way within typical conditioned reality/matrix. Its an invitation to break down those walls of conditioning and bask in the unconditional freedom of THIS without the need of higher purpose. Nobody is sailing the ship and the captain never was! Jump overboard or don't, it's that free

The difficulty is the subconscious will still attempt to label, identify and describe the experience/concepts according to its societal conditioning. It's so much easier if it's truly realized and embodied that "you really do not know" It has to be seen clearly that your knowledge and understanding of these concepts is or at least could be, completely incorrect. Unknowing is knowing you don't actually know.

Things can seem to be a lot of ways. Up down bottom top middle good bad happy sad mad rad. Which angle are you looking from? Because underneath it all, its nothing appearing as something.

Is this about you? It sounds like you looked in the mirror and had a self reflection moment with yourself or something. Are you feeling better at least? The good news is the Breakingthewall character that feels so strongly about this topic..........is completely unreal 😉 Look closely 👀

I'm sure it's both, but ultimately it's nothing 🤷‍♂️

@Breakingthewall I wasn't mocking what you said, it just sounded a lot like what certain people would describe back in the day when I would go to these hippie festivals/barter fairs. I'm older school 44yrs old. We would take psychedelics and hike up mountains, sit by the fire drumming and telling stories all night. It sounded very similar but in different language basically.

@Breakingthewall You're like a super spiritual hippie using new age philosophical lingo! 🤗✌️.......I can dig it 🫶

Then that's what's being experienced there. It's whole, complete and perfect! Just to be clear, in no way was I trying to insinuate that a no self awakening is deeper, better or more spiritually valuable than anything you have described. It almost sounds like you are repeating everything I talk about, except switching it from "unreal/illusion" to "real/reality".......kind of entertaining 🤷‍♂️ Prior to 2018, there was a very needy and desperate seeker here that was determined to understand all of reality or the truth of everything if you will. It thought that by knowing this information, it would gain some sort of advantage in life and over others. The truth would set me free. It read countless spiritual books, digested hundreds of hours of spiritual content from YouTube, did daily yoga sessions and meditated sometimes up to 2 hrs a day for over 2 years straight. If anyone could figure this stuff out, it was going to be me right! One day while feeling exhausted by all the endless spiritual seeking and without finding any lasting satisfaction, some questions arose like........Why am I doing all of this exhausting work? Who wanted the truth so damn badly? Where does this constant seeking energy come from? Who wants to know? The outwardly seeking completely halted and the internal seeking began.......it lasted several days, it was a very deep self introspection, or so it was thought to be. What happened over the next several days is difficult to describe because it wasn't like anything I had ever experienced previously or even heard of, and I had done quite a bit of hallucinogens in my late teens. It wasn't like any of those experiences at all. It was quickly becoming obvious that this me character wasn't as solid and real as it once seemed to be. As this introspection process continued, it became as if, the closer this self character was looked at, the more transparent or invisible it was becoming. It was dissolving as it was being interrogated. There was a lot of energetic excitement taking place because of how incredibly weird and surprising this was becoming. Everything started to feel lighter and less serious. This self character was being stripped away like onion layers at an onion ring factory. But simultaneously they weren't even being stripped away, rather they were never there from the start. There was a massive shift away from upholding this self construct called me.............its been quite a while now and it still sounds bizarre to tell the story.

@Breakingthewall I understand what you're saying. I don't think you understand what I mean by "self illusion" No biggie!!!

If nothing matters why not be vegan?

Agreed! When all these learned beliefs, theories, concepts crumble away. What's being described in this thread, becomes obvious. The canvas is empty to see clearly for the first time.