VeganAwake

Correct the ego or sense of self does not want to die.... why would it? did you think it was going to be like prancing on a rainbow in a pink skirt eating cotton candy.

The separate sense of 'self' cannot conceive of its own unreality, why would it.... it would be like putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger. That's why it's been called to die before you die

Who is 'I' that tried it?.....look closely. 'I' is also a thought... A thought can't dispel itself of itself when it believes its the thinker of the thoughts.

It points to ground zero condition. It doesn't just transcend the primordial spiral and spiral dynamics.... It completely shatters the limited belief that there's even something that could be transcended in the first place. This ancient wisdom is an open secret that has been pointed to for thousands of years through ancient sculptures symbols scripts and text. It's being pointed to right now. So easy and obvious, its overlooked. "Form is emptiness, emptiness is form" -- Gautama Buddha "Too close to be described, too close to be objectified, too close to be known in the usual way of knowledge" -- Gangaji “Darkness within darkness: the gateway to all understanding.” — Lao Tzu What you see is an illusion. The seer itself is an illusion, as in a dream. The dream itself is empty of reality, thus empty of meaning also. Where there has been no creation, not anything exists as either real or unreal. You are no more real than the dream you are in. Not anything is happening or has ever happened, in truth. been waiting for this one thanks brother ❤

There is nothing that needs to be done. People hear about something called Enlightenment and believe it's a special high achievement. But Enlightenment is the death of the individual that believes it can achieve something called Enlightenment at a future time. Can you see the funny situation here. Awakening or Enlightenment is just something that can take place for no Rhyme or Reason... it's not special in any way and it's not an achievement for anyone to have or earn... plain and simple ❤ There is nothing wrong with doing or not doing anything. "It's no measure of one's health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick Society" -- J Krishnamurti

yes everything is pointing to this so when it's recognized it can feel like coming home. For others it can be very unsettling and terrifying in fact.

I don't want to put words in his mouth but I believe what he's pointing to is the importance of clearly seeing what you are NOT as a prerequisite to clearly seeing what you are... which is the ultimate condition of nothingness.

Sorry for the confusion, and yes I realize it sounds like a negative judgment. It wasn't meant that way. Ego and separate sense of 'self' are used interchangeably here. If you believe yourself to be a separate individual that will find a better position in the future by learning spiritual knowledge or by doing enough correct practices to possibly one day become enlightened.... that's what is meant by egoic self agenda... it could also just be called self agenda which doesn't sound so disrespectful.

This video may or may not help you understand. Just be aware that even Robert Wolfe explains the importance of understanding Adviata or non-duality clearly before diving into a Ajata which is essentially what's being discussed now. ❤

There's no value in the sense that you're looking for it... something that will satisfy personal egoic agenda. Awakening transcends the limited idea of value and valueless right and wrong good and bad this or that.

Not sure if this helps but it's a great read...from Robert Wolfe's Ajata sunyata project: Nothingness Underneath the condition when you are awake and aware, and beneath the condition when you are in bed at night and dreaming, there is the deep-sleep condition. Here, there are no thoughts, there is no “you”, no mind, no relationships, no other, nor world, or universe. There is merely a condition of empty presence, no-thing-ness. Everything, every form, event, etc., is superimposed on this empty presence, by the mind in the waking or dreaming state. But the organism, the body, continues to exist despite these daily reoccurrence of emptiness. This condition in which there is no mind, no thoughts, no forms, and no you, is the “ground” state, your natural state. This empty presence is the condition of the organism before its birth (and its conditioning and the arising of the I-thought), and will be its condition once again upon the death of the form of “your life”. In other words, an organism appears to arise within empty presence, matures, and recedes again into empty presence (similar to the way an electron arises and recedes in the quantum field). The organism knew nothing of existence or nonexistence before birth, and will know nothing after death: “You” will not know that you— or anything else— ever had “existed”. Recognizing the fleeting temporality of “existence” – and that existence will be completely non-existent, in due course— it becomes clear that not anything that you do, think, feel or say has any lasting significance or meaning. (This is the message of the Bhagavad Gita.) All that appears, to the organism, to be done is merely a momentary expression of the field of ever-present beingness—utterly lacking in lasting reality. This is why it is said, in the nondual writings, that “nothing really matters”. It is also why it is said that (as a book about Papaji is titled) “nothing ever happened.” All that we learn in advaita is intending to point our attention to nothingness. (And not its “existence” or “nonexistence”, since where there is nothing, neither of these are applicable.) In other words, the intention of advaita, or nonduality, is to direct us to ajata. And, I would say, a thorough understanding of the former is necessary in order to comprehend the latter. When we come to recognize that, in truth, there is nothing from the start, we understand what is meant when it is said that all that we perceive is simply a dream, an illusion— seemingly superimposed on ever-lasting empty presence. Now, is this information simply an interesting “analysis”, or does this have practical value? Someone recently sent me a book by the Dalai Lama, and I’ll extract a few quotes. All phenomena are empty. Emptiness pervades not only your individual ego or sense of self, but the whole of reality…That emptiness of mind is its ultimate nature, or mode of being. To realize that, is to pierce and see through the deception of ignorance…freedom from ignorance (is called) nirvana… Realizing emptiness is directly related to our quest to purify our mind of afflictive emotions like hatred, anger, and desire…We project onto things a state of “existence”, and a mode of being which is simply not there…. This understanding of emptiness..is one of the principal factors of the true path….For such an insight cuts right through the illusion created by the mis-apprehension of grasping things and events as existing… We realize the emptiness of all phenomena, not just the mind and body of the individual.

Yes absolutely there is no wrong note at all. It's what's being experienced, it's perfect whole and complete.

I know this is not a logical message...❤ Maybe misidentification is a better way to put it. Maybe the best way to explain it is, when there's no other experience to compare with, it's impossible to imagine. Sort of like switching from a ketogenic diet to a whole food plant-based vegan diet. I had no clue how much better it could be until it happened... more energy, sleeping better at night lower blood pressure and cholesterol.

I think some of the misunderstanding is that although ego/separate sense of self is an illusion ultimately..... it has ability to create feelings of separation, lack and guilt. Just like a mirage of water in the desert will keep you walking for fulfillment just up ahead. the ego is the sense of lack it always wants more of everything. More love more power more success more enlightenment more of everything. This is how it stays alive or maintains it's own illusory existence. (running on the hamster wheel endlessly) Osho has a warning in one of his Tantric books... He said if you recognize ego is also everything good...but "he warns beware the ego is very cunning" it can become a wolf in sheep's clothing(spiritual ego). Be aware!! Here is a quote from Samadhi (Maya illusion of the self) : "Most people think that they are free, conscious and awake. If you believe you are already awake, then why would you do the difficult work to attain what you believe you already have? Before it becomes possible to awaken, it is necessary to accept that you are asleep, living in the matrix. Examine your life honestly, without lying to yourself"....End Quote! So to say something is an illusion and nothing needs to be done is a misunderstanding of what's being pointed out. "It's a misidentification with ability to create influence" ( illusion/Maya is just the most fitting words used usually. So the separate sense of self or ego is real until it dies and then it's recognized it never existed.... just to make things clear ? ❤

Truth bomb....love this absolutely!!

Yes it's incredible how before even thinking occurs we instinctually help ❤

? My parents used to have a crazy black cat named blackjack mcfuzz. If you stopped petting him before he was satisfied he would attack your leg as you walked away lol. The amazing personalities of existence... Incredible!!

❤

Your welcome ? Yes absolutely it reminds me of a story from Eckhart Tolle: The Duck with a Human Mind... This story illustrates the uniquely human ability to cling to the past by holding on to our stories. When two ducks get into a fight, it never lasts long – they soon separate and fly off in opposite directions. Each duck then flap its wings vigorously several times. This releases the surplus energy that built up in him during the fight. After they flap their wings, they fly on peacefully as if nothing had ever happened. Now, if the duck had a human mind, this scene would go very differently. The duck may fly away peacefully, for a moment, but he would not put the fight behind him. He would keep the fight alive in his mind, by thinking and story-making. The duck's story would probably go something like this: "I can't believe what he just did. He came within five inches of me. He has no consideration for my private space. He thinks he owns this pond. I'll never trust him again. I know he's already plotting something else to annoy me with. But I'm not going to stand for it. I'm going to teach him a lesson he will never forget."

@Natasha ❤ Have you read this book.. "Are You as Happy as Your Dog?: Sure Fire Ways to Wake Up with a Smile as Big as Your Pooch's by Alan Cohen.

Yes Enlightenment sort of speak transcend's external circumstances as well as arising emotions and thoughts. And simultaneously it's not something that needs to be upheld. See I can see a nice car for sale and attach to an idea of wanting to buy that car. For example I'm not going to turn my head the other way and say don't look don't look don't become attached... so in that sense it's not an avoidance... it's the underlying peace that remains regardless of whether I'm able to buy the car or not at that time. Is total complete unconditional Freedom regardless of outcome or circumstance.

Its a loss not a gain. Although it can feel like a gain in the sense that you're not using so much energy to uphold the egoic construct any longer. It can feel like an energetic shift and a large weight dropped off the shoulders. ❤

Another way to say unconditional is "regardless of outcome" Kind of like the deep love you always have for your child regardless of what they do. Expanding this kind of love for all of existence regardless of outcome.

@Marten ? ❤

Spring/summer fever/coronavirus quarantine Whatever the case Many thanks to Leo for making it possible....? good times now and ahead ❤