VeganAwake

? Reminds me of a story: A wise elderly man, and two travelers. Once there was a wise, elderly man who spent his days just outside his village sitting under a shady tree where he would think. One day, a traveler came up to him and said, »Old man, I have traveled far. I have seen many things and met many people. Can you tell me, if I go into this village, what kind of people will I meet there?« The wise man replied, »Yes, I’d be happy to tell you. But first, tell me what kind of people you’ve met in your travels so far.« The traveler responded, »Oh, you wouldn’t believe it. I have met the most awful people! People who are selfish and unkind to strangers. People who don’t care for themselves or one another. I’ve met foolish young people I could learn nothing from, and old people whose lack of hope depresses everyone they meet.« As the traveler spoke, a look of sadness grew in the wise man’s eyes as he nodded in a knowing way. »Yes,« he said. »I believe I know exactly the kind of people you speak of. And I’m sorry to tell you, but if you go into my village, I’m afraid that’s exactly the kind of people you will meet.« »I knew it!« the traveler scoffed. »It’s always the same.« He kicked the dirt under his feet and stormed off down the road, without ever bothering to stop in the village. A few hours later, another traveler came upon the wise man. »Kind sir,« he said, »I have traveled far. I have seen many things and met many people. Can you tell me, if I go into this village, what kind of people will I meet there?« The wise man replied, »Yes, I’d be happy to tell you. But first, tell me what kind of people you’ve met in your travels so far.« The traveler responded, »Oh, you wouldn’t believe it. I have met the most amazing people! People who are kind and generous to strangers; people who care for one another like family. I’ve met older people with a youthful passion for life that brings joy to everyone they meet. And I have learned much from all of them.« As the traveler spoke, the wise man smiled brightly as he nodded in a knowing way. »Yes,« he said. » I believe I know exactly the kind of people you speak of. And I’m happy to tell you if you go into my village, I’m certain that’s exactly the kind of people you will meet.« »Come then,« said the traveler, »and introduce me to them.« ❤

The mind-boggling dilemma of nothing witnessing everything. These words can be uttered but are they really understood, after all it's completely illogical to believe that nothing could witness something. How could something be perceived without a perceiver? And if the perceiver isn't real, what could actually be perceived that's real? The sense of 'self' is identity so it can't conceive of non-identity, it can't except its own unreality. So it either has to subconsciously overlook this message, misinterpret it, or flat out deny it. So then what happens is nothing is turned into something, it's turned into an identity. What is there to do about nothing?

Who is asking?

@Someone here ❤ ?

Hehe that's funny ?...like it Its so bizarre and radical from the way things are normally perceived. It could be said that everything stems from conditioning but even that is just a word pointing to everything the way it is. ❤

It's like having your plan for life being exactly whatever happens ?

True, yeah conditioning can come from anything...for example someone growing up in the woods who's camp had been attacked numerous times by a bear, might grow to truly dislike bears. It's very subtle and obviously there can be more convenient situations than others. It's just the end of needing outcomes to be a certain way for peace of mind. ❤

Maybe the truth is there is no truth. Maybe it seems to hide Itself by being everything which is constant change.

Like ? ❤

Like ? ❤

What about preferences? It's been conditioned to prefer the good over the bad, happiness over the sadness, love over the hate, knowing over the unknown. "The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent everything becomes clear and undisguised. Make the smallest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. If you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against. The struggle of what one likes and what one dislikes is the disease of the mind". -- Sengstan, Hsin Hsin Ming

So there's a direct correlation between an alert conscious mind and suffering. But when there's a thought about making a delicious sandwich for lunch or giving my son a hug, suffering isn't occurring then right? So what is it about the conscious alert mind that causes suffering?

Do you suffer at the doctor's office when under anesthesia? Does someone in a state of unconsciousness suffer?... like being a vegetable or in a coma

Exactly kind of like this.... but don't worry the ego doesn't turn into an owl

It creates all kinds of stories about how bad things will get... don't listen. Stop feeding it ..Starve it to death. It will re-inflate over and over again for a while... but just like a balloon that got re-inflated too many times, it gets weak and eventually no longer holds air. ❤

It's real and unreal. Real in the sense that its experienced that a separate individual suffers. Unreal in the sense that the suffer isn't actually there. So its actually a misidentification with thinking and bodily senses.

Haha yes it wasn't specified psychological or physical suffering. Not just labeling but Identification. Physical pain occurs in the body and is identified with as 'my' pain leading to possible psychological suffering on top of the feeling of localized pain. So suffering typically stems from identification with conditioned thoughts(my thoughts) and localized pain in the body(my pain)

Yes, a thought arises no chips and beer = bad. Identification with this thought creates an apparent lacking or bad experience for 'me'(suffering) No chips and beer is neutral.... it's neither right nor wrong.... the fact is there's just no chips and beer. So the conditioned thought identified with as 'my' thought created the apparent suffering.

Yes the body seems to get effected. What is the source of the suffering?

Yes exactly there's nothing To make of it...❤ Whether you get caught up in the play of life or not doesn't matter at all.... Because it's a play/dream. When death occurs, all the good the bad and the ugly disappear just as when you wake up from a dream at night. So might as well enjoy the dream while it lasts or not either way it doesn't matter. And if there is a higher source dreaming the dream.... that also doesn't matter because it's a dream ?

Concerning Liberation, nothing matters is the highest recognition period. It takes the wind out of the sail, blows the ship out of the water and chops the legs off of every other possible concept that could be identified with. With that being said, it's usually(99.9999%) misunderstood... and ego is very cunning and can sneak in the back door and take hold of this recognition quicker than slime on a snail. The thing is, Liberation can be pointed to all day long.... but it must be recognized/seen there plain and simple. Look and See(not with the intellect) Who could suffer? Where would the suffering take place? Who or What is suffering? ❤

These last 2 posts are classic examples of the importance of being able to empty the glass and unknow. Saying Awakening or Enlightenment should be one way or the other prior to it actually occurring is like telling your teacher which grade to give you prior to taking the test. Good luck and let us know how that works ?

There is no 'me' or 'you'. The ego and higher self are both illusory identifications stemming from the same source... identification with thinking.

Self recognition is the death of the seeking energy/seeker that believed something needed to be recognized. Typically what happens during half-assed awakenings, glimpses or mystical experiences is that, it feels so uncomfortable to be in freefall / free float, that the sense of self or ego immediately tries to rebuild itself and becoming identified as the true self higher self consciousness God... whatever floats the spiritual egos boat. There's nothing right or wrong with it, it's just what seems to apparently happen. ❤

“What is already” is nothing to the “I am” seeking energy, which is looking for something knowable. As the “I am” and the experience of real separation are illusory and what is truly longed for is never lost, any personal search to overcome separation or find what is already, is utterly hopeless. A perspective arising out of an illusory „real“ separation will suggest, that personal effort such as being aware or more aware, being conscious or more conscious, being in the now or being present can lead to the end of separation. These suggestions in essence take the seeker prisoner. Confirming the hope, that what is longed for will be or could be found through personal effort. However: No experience, realization, or process of becoming could possibly lead to the dissolution of the already illusory experience of „real“ separation. The “I am” is hopelessly and choicelessly trapped in a dream of personal process, in its’ efforts to find something for itself, thereby missing what is already: unrecognizable freedom. The end of the “I am experience“ is the recognition, that there never was one. Real Separation is a dream. With this recognition, the need to compromise with the seekers' expectations of becoming, naturally also ends. The assertion, that what is truly longed for would or could be found as the result of a process, is revealed to be completely misguided. Nothing leads to „what is“ already. Non-separation is never realized, found, or known. But can be recognized by no-one in the falling away of the illusory experience of real separation. The end of seeking is not the fulfillment of the individuals' need for answers about what life is, what death is, nor is it the satisfaction of the need for meaning and purpose. It is the end of the need to know, which is the end of questions and search for answers as the causeless end of the questioner which never was". -- Jim Newman