VeganAwake

Illusion

Love this. Where do you go when it's recognized the one seeking for answers is ultimately unreal. It leaves no leg to stand on and then it becomes WHAT IS!

Who is asking why? "From the Upanishads on down, there have been sages who have discovered the meaning of ajata’s message, and have declared “no creation” or “no origination” or “no birth” etc. They are stating that the nature of ultimate reality is emptiness or nothingness or a void, and that from a “condition” of emptiness not anything can ever come out or originate or appear. In other words, any thing which appears to exist is not, and cannot be, a creation from nothingness. Put another way, any thing which seems to appear is not real, from the ultimate standpoint. This is not a denial that things do seem to appear. Both anything which seems to appear and the person to whom they seem to appear are unreal. The analogy which is classically given is that of a sleeping dream. In the dream, you–a figure which is not actually real–interact in a world which dos not actually exist. In this analogy, when you–whom ajata says cannot have had this existence from the start–wake up from the sleeping dream, you are nevertheless an unreal person seeming to live in a world, which does not exist in actuality. In other words, the waking “dream” is a continuation of the sleeping dream. Neither one can be anymore real than the other. Another way in which the literature puts this is to say that all forms are empty. Anything which is truly empty cannot be said to “exist”; and where existence is out of the question, “not exist” is not applicable. You, as a form, are empty. The world, as a form, is empty. In other words, both are nothing. Both have not ever been created, or originated. Though they seem to appear (within the big Dream), both are without any actual reality. The seeming person continues to live out her life (from supposed “birth” to “death”) in a seeming world, in a seeming universe. Yet, in what could be said to be the true or ultimate reality of emptiness, not anything ever has, or could, happen. From the ultimate standpoint, there is not anything that ever needs to be explained. Any questions which arise and any answers are within the Dream–and the Dream is not real. Those who understand this, the sages would say, have awakened from the big Dream. Whether one does or does not, in the end, makes absolutely no difference. But for those who do awaken, all their questions–within the Dream–are seen to be utterly empty". -- Ajata Project (Robert Wolfe) ajatasunyata.com

Is there anything ever off topic?

Nobody gets it. Its too radical! Oh, and there really is no one ? ?

? like ❤

The importance of humanity transcending up the spiral kind of fell apart here when it was recognized the only thing that thought that should happen was my ego. That being said there's absolutely nothing right or wrong with using Spiral Dynamics, making the world a better place to live etc...

It sounds like you understood what he meant clearly. ? That ego is cunning and it wants to survive by any means possible.... identifying itself as infinite consciousness would be a perfect under the radar survival strategy, wouldn't you agree

Duality collapses with the recognition there never was a "you" or "another". So in a sense it doesn't even collapse, it's recognized as having never been. And then it's just Everything happening for No One. or Freedom/Paradise/Enlightenment Liberation/Nirvana ❤

Essentially their communication is that apparent existence is a real and unreal experience simultaneously. Real in the sense that it's what's apparently happening. Unreal in the sense that the experiencer is an illusion, and thus making that which it experiences unreal. An illusory dreamer experiencing an illusory experience. ❤

I agree with what you said and I think Jim would too.

Oh gotcha....yep its unknowable, and totally can't help trying to know. Attempting to find something that was never missing or looking for the invisible needle in the haystack.... the sometimes unfunny cosmic joke. ❤ ?

@Moksha love that, you are a good guy to have around the forum ❤ Now if I can just convince you that the singular consciousness theory is just another deeply conditioned belief within the dream story, my life's work will be complete ? Hehe totally joking bro...enjoy reading your loving comments ❤

The word Consciousness implies there is someone or something that is aware and conscious of everything. Jim points to the deep recognition that the very thing that believes itself to be conscious and aware whether it's consciousness itself or the separate seeker is a completely illusory experience/the dream.

If "you're" interested there's also Richard Sylvester, Lisa Cairns, Tim Cliss, Kenneth Madden, and Rose Roes who also discuss this communication rather well.

? oh yeah it's completely radical... Jim calls it Anarchy sometimes. This communication takes the ideas of meaning, purpose and value and throws it out the window and makes Reality and Truth completely not applicable theories at best.

Its paradoxical ❤

I have yet to meet anyone that isn't all over this spiral in some way shape or form. Placing a center of gravity for oneself in this model is merely perspectival and simply doesn't hold up under close scrutiny. Spiral Dynamics is pointing to everything exactly the way it is.

It seems to elude the "seeker" by simply being everything.

I wonder if it would still feel like no distance if someone told you to now run after the car and catch it?

it's a coping mechanism of the mind to create some kind of order and logical sense from what it experiences. It places things in a box checks it off as understood and moves on to the next box to check off. In that sense it's basic and complex simultaneously.

I believe the picture is from Eckhart Tolle The Power of Now.. but not positive. I printed it off a couple years ago and keep it in my truck. The quote was from this video ❤