VeganAwake

Totally agree 🤙

I stumbled onto his videos on YouTube while looking for someone who had a similar experience around 2019 At first I thought the guy was crazy. It sounded foreign or something, but I could hear the sincerity in his voice and see it in his body language. After a little bit of getting used to his language/articulation it was like : "holy shit, this guy is describing an almost identical situation to mine here, but using different verbiage" It's a trip!

Yeah, it's all of those things and I suspect its a little different for each body. That lived sense of self will never dissolve entirely, it's energy flow is to habitual, but it can seem to loosen up and feel lighter. Here it wasn't anything physical initially. It was seeing/realizing this sense of myself wasn't as solid as it had once seemed to be. Like a glimpse at first, then little by little, over a period of a couple days, it started to become obvious that it wasn't actually there or real. Like the sense of self went from a sturdy brick house to a wobbly house of cards in days. And at a certain point, it became obvious that it never was. Everything felt lighter and less serious almost immediately. The energy put into the clinch of this self illusion is incredible, and weirdly only really noticeable after it relaxes.

That logic sounds very circular and smells of buddhism. One of the reasons awakening is so radical is because it completely disregards the knower as real and credible. The knower there, being the Breakingthewall character and everything that identification believes it knows or has acquired since young age. That's why it's often referred to as unknowing. It's rare because this identification is so solid and habitual it's damn near impossible to see through it.......some say nobody ever sees through it!......that the seeing through it is simultaneously the end of it!

Yeah, I totally get what you mean, there's only so many words that seem like they match best to the situation. Probably sounds like a copycat. The sense of self doesn't actually break or die because it's not real. Those are just the words attempting to describe how it seems. At least here, it was a clear recognition that carries with it the ability to slowly strangle/deflate the self illusion. Writing a long example about yourself is kind of like an exercise to reveal how much of its concept is just assumed and in the head. Interestingly here, a lot of the "sense of self" was descriptions heard from other people over the years and just assumed to be a me.

Is it more that just an identification with thinking? Does it create a physical experience in the body and what is that experience?

Unknowing is similar to not taking a position on a topic but still being engaged. Similar to watching the NFL without having a team. It allows a big picture focus instead of getting tunnel vision on teams and players. But its also not denying the role of the players and teams. We aren't trying to crucify or demonize this "sense of self", we are just watching it, seeing how it labels and takes ownership. Shining a light on it to see if it's actually real

If it's conditional is it love?

I would be suspicious of anyone describing reality that way. It would sound like a blind total denial of sorts. Physical reality is wild and crazy, it's over the top radical and spontaneous. The human languages can't even come close to doing it justice. An explosion of lights, colors, sounds, smells, crazy looking creatures, amazing plant life, infinite cosmos and the mystery of the unknown. But simultaneously its empty of certain qualities which humans try to superimpose onto reality like importance or value and purpose. It's empty and full. Empty of meaning and purpose. It doesn't have an end goal or agenda to stick to. It doesn't need or require anything to be a certain way. It's already complete in other words. It's already everything and lacks nothing. Full because it's all encompassing/all inclusive and excludes nothing. As conditioned humans we attempt to understand and know what reality is. We try to force meaning onto reality by way of our perspectives/prerogatives. The sense of self is that which experiences suffering and becomes defensive if another body calls it a stupid ass. Sit and write an entire page describing yourself in detail minus the physical body..........that's at least what I refer to as the "sense of self"

My view is that reality doesn't have a prerogative. It doesn't have an end goal it's trying to reach. Humans just project those qualities onto reality. There definitely seems to be a survival quality but it's more like a programed instinct rather than intelligent decision making. And obviously within reality there are biological creatures that appear to be self aware or self conscious, but there isn't an all encompassing consciousness or universal consciousness actually happening. The identification of Being this conscious universal reality it what I totally disagree with. That identification aspect was clearly recognized here to be completely illusory. It's like a delusional exaduration of the self illusion (spiritual ego) We don't have to agree on these points.........reality still flows regardless!!!

Reality IS limited then because it cant become unaware of itself being all of reality any longer 😝

The really shocking part is that it never actually started. It only seems to! That's typically only recognized clearly when it dies.

That doesn't include the tip!

I never said reality is an illusion. I said the identification that believes it's the reality being aware of itself, is an illusion. That experience of being self aware and conscious, is just the body's senses coupled with the conditioned imagination of the body. Basically that body's mind over there has become an entity in-of-itself. It has convinced itself that it is all of reality. What's being said here is that is not the case, it's a very tiny piece within reality, but it's not all of reality itself. The source that claims I'm fucking reality being aware of itself, is completely unreal! I'm sorry Breakingthewall self illusion. You are not all of reality. It's a tough fact to grasp. It can feel like the rug was pulled out from under you and that you've been bamboozled for year's. Fortunately I offer counseling at the reasonable price of only $200 an hour to help you through this disidentification process 🤑

Again, it must be convenient to have instant amnesia for the things said there. I just think what's talked about here, triggers and frustrates the self illusion there. It goes against its illusory framework or paradigm. It threatens its own reality and entire fantastical belief system of being all of reality(undercover delusional narcissism). YOU ARE NOT ALL OF REALITY! THAT WHICH BELIEVES IT IS, IS A GIANT INFLATED SPIRITUAL EGO/SELF ILLUSION. THAT EXACT IDENTIFICATION THATS SAYING "I AM THAT", IS THE SELF ILLUSION. GET IT!!! And of course everything said here sounds the same and gets boring. The communication doesn't change or offer anything to that stubborn self illusion. It's a completely uncompromising communication. It would be strange and very questionable if the communication changed drastically over time, wouldn't it? What's being communicated here is timeless. It doesn't change depending on how many psychedelic drugs/trips have taken place, and steered the imagination drastically. And of course a confident communication that completely denies the existence of that identity is going to be attacked and labeled as malarkey. That's it's main defense mechanism. If it can undermine the credibility of the messenger, it doesn't have to take seriously the implications of the message. ❤️

There just isn't a you period. That which feels like a separate person within the body or as the body, isn't actually there, it just seems so. The truth will set you free because there wasn't a you from the start 😉

👌

Something that's been recognized here is that, identification itself has a relentless need for things to "matter". Whether it's an identification as a human, or all of reality, makes no difference at all. When there is the experience of "I am that", with it comes an automatic need for things to have meaning, purpose and value. It can't fathom its existence or reality as meaningless or without purpose...........it's like cryptonite for identification. This illusory identification can have an expansion effect if it's reality becomes threatened enough. It's like an exadurated survival mechanism which is often referred to as spiritual ego or super ego! (What happened there) And on the opposite side of the spectrum, this illusory identification can also seem to collapse completely or be recognized to have never been, although it is very very rare and often referred to as enlightenment or liberation! (What happened here) So because of this phenomenon, the illusory identification there, will never grasp what's being communicated here. It's completely hopeless in that sense. But here there is a solid understanding of what is being experienced there, because of the memory of what that illusory identification experience was like. Basically "you" are mistakenly identified as everything and can't explain it clearly because "you" aren't everything and there are limitations, you can't risk sounding to ridiculous or everyone would just ignore and label you as crazy, and that would feel bad for that illusion of self identification.

I think one of the main difference in our opinions is the belief that the so-called driving forces of reality are intelligent and meaningful. Things occur with purpose and they are valuable to reality itself. I don't see things that way. I think reality just appears intelligent because it has had infinite time on its side. I think conditioned humans place the concepts of meaning, purpose and value overtop of reality and then operate from that conditioned perspective. I don't think reality cares at all about survival. It's a runaway train without a conductor or destination. We completely disagree on what enlightenment is and or entails, and that is just fine! It's been interesting to hear your perspective on things. That's one of the great benefits of this forum 🤙

Things can definitely seem to matter! Does the inner drive of a serial killer matter? Is it actually important weather or not the egg gets fertilized? Was it crucial that the Japanese were unsuccessful at attempting to conquer the US during WW2? Is a robot that's programed to avoid destruction, important to keep intact? Does it matter if someone is successful at committing suicide or the so-called inner drive of reality is hurdling an asteroid the size of texas, at planet earth?

@Spiritual Warrior I apologize for getting off topic on your thread 🙏 I wanted to mention that meditation is a great way to slow or halt the habitual overthinking during experience. Best bang for your buck in every way. You may have already known this 🙂

Must be convenient to have amnesia about your attitude and insults. I was just matching your energy to keep things interesting. I'm not saying I know, I'm saying you don't. And not just to be a jerk, but because I recognize the impossibility of that claim. I'm an honest nobody 🤷‍♂️

Feelings of envy could arise depending on the situation. They don't last long because there is no one left here identifying with or perpetuating them. Initial feelings even strong one's are typically not a problem and a normal reaction. They can be very habitual and arise out of nowhere even. It can take a long time for those reactionary feelings to loosen up. But sometimes they can subside quickly. It becomes problematic when these feelings actually start affecting someones daily life. It shows a disconnect and lack of understanding. It reveals an underlying issue basically. Does envy seem to be an issue for you?

I'm really just saying it's impossible to understand or accurately describe reality using man-made logic and or models of understanding. Reality is prior to it all! An infinite reality could never be put into any kind of comprehensible format or theory that someone could even possibly begin to fathom or describe. Things happened certain ways prior to any possibly of a witness. Therefore what happened no longer exists and it would be utterly ridiculous to even attempt to theorize. So in that sense reality is truly and infinitely unknowable. Closest would always end up being a theory or educated guess.