VeganAwake

Haha this was a good thread. Yes everything is already exactly what it is prior to any conditioned concepts about it being good/bad; right/wrong. "Nothing matters, everything is already whole complete and perfect....but why not try to make the world a better place". - Jim Newman ❤

There's nothing right or wrong with any practice or method. But if there was a real goal to spiritual practice it would be: The recognition that the very individual attempting to awaken is completely unreal. ❤

Tony Parsons Richard Sylvester Andreas Mueller Tim Cliss Jim Newman Kenneth Madden Because it's been recognized there that the individual which attempts to reach enlightenment isn't real. ❤

The idea is to recognize that this individual that endlessly seeks & inquires IS AN ILLUSION. ❤

@WokeBloke There is a physical body there typing and reading but it's EMPTY. There isn't a real individual named wokebloke within that body. If that body bumps its head hard enough, the sense of being the individual wokebloke can be lost. Wokebloke is like a web or bundle of memories and assumptions being identified with over & over again as "ME".....like an endless perpetuating illusion!

@Eternal Unity Yeah man this can be a very confusing topic to grasp from within the experience or dream story of separation.("I am here & everything else is out there" experience) Simply put: Duality = Misunderstanding It's not that there isn't apparent physical separation between objects like a tree, a dog, a fence, a house, a frog, a log. Nondual Awareness or Awakening is the recognition that this self construct that calls itself ME within the body & with all its endless wants, needs, desires, concepts and beliefs(conditioning) ISN'T actually a real entity or individual. Its a disentangling from the socially conditioned mind matrix known as ME..... only nobody becomes untangled because the somebody was an illusion. And additionally for whatever reason it seems to be pretty rare. ❤

"The experience that there’s separation, something missing and something to find is completely illusory. There’s no real separation. There’s nothing missing. There’s nothing that needs to be found. This is absolute. This is infinite. This doesn’t come from anywhere, isn’t going anywhere. This doesn’t need anything" - Jim Newman

Exactly, the individual claiming there ISN'T an individual is as unreal as the individual claiming there IS an individual.

There isn't a real 'YOU' so how could there be a real issue!

❤ Yep, It's the recognition there never was a real individual to escape or not. No one escapes because no one is really imprisoned.

Yeah it's definitely radical. No real purpose or meaning. Nothing matters at all whether 'you' believe in God or not.... doesn't change anything perception is an illusion.

Yeah it's totally radical. The universe is like a grain of sand on an infinite beach... nothing matters at all! It's complete freedom! There's nothing that needs to be done or not done, discovered or not discovered! There is no goal that needs to be fulfilled. I watch people running around all day trying to make something happen.... slaves of the egoic agenda, and it's recognized there is nothing right or wrong with that. It's perfectly what's happening! ❤

Well it's recognizing there never was a beginning or an end because the individual that believes it's on a spiritual path getting somewhere isn't real. It's the end of seeking because the only thing attempting to know was an illusion of self. There isn't a real you already in which could discover it's true self or nature. The experience that "you are" is simply the bodily senses coupled with the illusion of being self aware..... often referred to as Maya! ❤

It can be recognized that this identity called ME is not a real separate individual with free will but simply a product of its surrounding conditioning. The religion, the beliefs, the thoughts, the ideas, the concepts, the acquired knowledge become like a web or bundle of identity that feels centered or localized within the body In fact if that same body would have been born in rural china it would appear to be a completely separate identity with totally different conditioning.... different religion, beliefs, ideas, concepts, thoughts, acquired knowledge and so on. But when all these different pieces that seem to make up this so-called self construct are broken down it can be recognized that there's just NO ONE ACTUALLY THERE. The individual is an illusion.... there's no one really there underneath this conditioning. When this is seen clearly by no one, this tight wound self construct can start to loosen up and fall apart or unravel sort of speak. This so-called opinionated and needy individual along with all its beliefs, values, concepts and worldviews can start to collapse which is often referred to as awakening or enlightenment. ❤

This is the definition of Spiritual Materialism which Jim Newman speaks about.... Think it might be time for some lessons. ❤

It's so already the case that it seems hidden because enlightenment is the recognition that the very individual that thinks it needs to find something special, isn't real in any way at all. Sounds easy enough but it's rare and never what the ego/me thinks it will be like. Ordinary and extraordinary simultaneously seem to describe it well! ❤

Hahahaha. The only thing that wants to keep going is the Ego, it always says Enlightenment is just up ahead around the next corner.... it literally never finds what it's looking for because it's the very experience of separation. What ego is searching for is an imaginary concept about Awakening or Enlightenment that simply never occurs... it's a fabrication of the ego, a dream story of what the ego believes Enlightenment must be like. The paradox is that meditation can sometimes allow a catching on to these endless dream stories the ego fabricates to keep the search going. BTW it doesn't seem to be working there. Enlightenment has nothing to do with being able to tell a nice long spiritual sounding story to make the ego feel like it has really been getting somewhere & making progress on the so-called spiritual path. Its the recognition that this individual or whatever identifying agent 'you' consider yourself to be, IS AN ILLUSION of self. Honestly by now you would think you guys would have accidentally caught on to what is being pointed to. It really illuminates how tricky identification with the ego/sense of self can be. ❤

Because enlightenment is a recognition that nobody has which illuminates the fact that there never was a real individual......not now or later. ❤

That's the thing, there isn't anyone. The centered sense of self or self construct within the body is an illusion. So nobody runs around believing it's a real somebody and that if it can just find the right answers to the WHY questions everything will be understood and get better. But there's no real answers because the questioner isn't real. In other words nothing needs to be figured out because there isn't a real problem for a someone to begin with. ❤

Yep, the illusory experience of separation is the experience that something is lacking and needs to be found. This cycle perpetuates and seemingly confirms the experience that there is a real separate individual that can one day find what it thinks is missing whether that be with climbing the materialist ladder, endless spiritual practices, the use of psychedelics or reading spiritual books & texts. They are all the same seeking in the sense that something feels missing and needs to be achieved or found. There's nothing right or wrong with setting goals or seeking material possessions because that would just be another concept of an illusory separate individual that thinks having no goals or attachments might then be the path to achieve enlightenment. Enlightenment is the end of identification as this needy separate individual but not because a someone or GOD stops identifying as THAT but because it's recognized there never was anyone from the start that even could be identified as such.(it was just illusion of self) Any form of identification as God, true self or higher self is simply the ego/sense of self trying to re-establish identification as THAT. Enlightenment has nothing to do with becoming or recognizing an inner true self. It's the end of an unreal experience as a separate individual believing there is something which needs to occur to make what already IS become IT. ❤