VeganAwake

There are no stages to Awakening because ultimately it's a recognized( after Awakening occurs) there was never a separate individual that could become awakened. So although it sounds paradoxical it's later recognized it just never was the case. It was a misidentification with thoughts and energy in the apparent human body that gave the illusion there was a separate individual.

Yes just what's happening Brother ❤

oh do you mean that you would be judged if it was recognized you are just identified with the thoughts arising there. ❤ Of course you would not be judged they're just thoughts arising for No One ❤

We believe that conditioning is our fault but it is out of our hands. Same with Hitler he was raised by abusive manipulating parents alcoholics most of the time. If we knew Hitler has a child, we would embrace him with love and care for him. Like a caterpillar breaking out of its cocoon spreading its wings and flying away ❤

You are already complete... there was never anything that needed to be found or discovered... that's the dream. You We're perfect whole and complete all along. ❤

Well that's the point you will become undone brother❤ free

What is your question? ❤

This is also why you wouldn't want to speak to an actual enlightened individual because they would put you in your place and completely obliterate your entire paradigm which would feel like death to you. ❤

You will run into all kinds of issues because you do not understand what non-duality is because you haven't seen through the illusion of the separate self correctly or clearly enough.

No not at all in any way. Your definition of Nothing/One is that there's something here that is conscious of what's Happening. This definition is that it's an illusion and there is nothing here experiencing anything. Do you see now the major difference in perspectives? ❤

When Awakening occurs there isn't anyone left,. that's what you're not recognizing. Non-duality cannot be recognized from the subject/object perspective period. That's the apparent issue here.

Hahaha....love that ?

Right....? what I'm saying is that there isn't an individual to be asleep from the get-go. ❤ It's an illusory experience of being asleep

Yes absolutely there was never a suggestion to not experience and enjoy what is apparently happening. It's the experience that what is apparently happening is unrecognizable and simultaneously incredible with the recognition that it is not happening to someone. It's just happening it's what is ❤

It's indescribable, its perfect whole and complete. If you want to believe that God/self would limit itself into finite perspectives to experience suffering and or finite experiences.... To include creativity Beauty love Etc that's what's being experienced there. It was recognized here that the one that believes that is illusion. It's what's being experienced there... can't argue with that. Because it's what is. The recognition here is that there's nothing driving the train.... which I should mention is Pure Freedom because there's nothing or no one to blame for apparent suffering. This is a great conversation and there's so much appreciation for Leo's open groundedness and creativity to make such a forum available. It's this it's beautiful it's perfect it's complete ❤

Yeah but this is a straw man argument. That's like saying there's no apparent other valid experiences. If 500 people in the village start getting healed from the next Villages Medicine Man wouldn't that be an experience of Interest?

Awakening is apparently real when you are still identified as a separate individual. When Awakening occurs it's recognized the separate individual never existed hence the comment Awakening is not real. ❤ Because there was never a separate individual that could have awakened.

Listen to what Peter says at the very end of the interview, he doesn't say you realize you are everything or higher consciousness.... what does he say.

I honestly believe that you may not recognize that an illusion has the power to mislead. See you're saying it's not real so it has no real power. But if you're walking through the desert and see a mirage of water up ahead it has the ability to keep you walking for a fresh drink of water in the future. As you keep walking through the desert and the Fulfillment of getting your thirst quenched keeps appearing just further ahead. Wouldn't you stop and start questioning this apparent future fulfillment up ahead. This is what happens during Awakening you realize there was nothing missing and that the thirst that needed to be quenched wasn't real. Because you had water in your backpack the whole time. ❤

What's being pointed to is that Awakening isn't real because Awakening is recognizing the individual that believes it could in the future become awakened was an illusion, a missidentification with thinking and stored energy in the body as the 'ME'.

You just described a perfect definition of the dream. When it's recognized the thoughts that are identified with as the separate sense of 'self' are illusory, there's no more identification with those illusory Concepts that become created out of nothing.

The main difference is additional Concepts were adopted there after it was recognized the separate sense of 'self' is illusory. See the sense of self cannot conceive of its own unreality so it will adopt whatever concept it can to keep itself alive. There were no additional Concepts adopted here it was just recognized as pure illusory from the beginning. So in a sense I'm not the one holding beliefs the beliefs are actually held there ❤

It's actually not paradoxical when looked at closely. This is what you said: Its just you man, just happening, just god, just this...... What I am saying: that concept is absolutely 100% the Dream. The concept that there's something higher a higher source witnessing or possibly even dictating the outcome of circumstance. No that's the Dream. Completely different messages in fact the opposite.

Yes exactly nothing is the topic of discussion here now no one pay attention. ? ❤

I just wouldn't describe it as a state of consciousness I would say it's a deep recognition that the sense of self experienced in the body is an absolute illusion... reason being States come and go when this is recognized it's not going anywhere... The separate sense of 'self' always needs to experience more or the seeking energy will die which is actually what waking up is. When it's recognized the one that is seeking is an illusion it takes the wind out of the sail sort of speak and the seeking energy dies because it's recognized as being never real and that there's nothing to find anyways.